Good rod specs for small streams, native brookies

[nd1001]

I will say, I had a similar experience on one outing with a Maxcatch glass rod, where a ton of fish were coming unbuttoned. It felt like the tip wasn’t sensitive enough to keep tension while I was stripping line in. I would have to imagine that there is some degree of build/material quality which influences that aspect of a rod.

I’ve fished lots of other glass rods, some very slow action (bend deep into the blank), but they still felt responsive enough at the tip to register and react to the movements of a thrashing fish and keep tension.

 

[wildtrout2]

I fish a 7' 3wt exclusively on small mountain freestone streams. Perfect rod for the job.

 

[falcon]

I dont fish small water often. I like to use a 7ft 4in Thomas and Thomas Lotic, a glass rod. I like to use this rod on the Upper Willowemoc.

 

[rrt]

I'm old, so this might not matter much. Anyhow, I use a 6 1/2-foot, 4-wt, when I am targeting brookies, which I don't get to do much anymore. It is a nice small-stream rod with a moderately quick action, though if I were buying another one, I would get the same length but try a 3-wt. Mine is an old rod: an Orvis Rocky Mountain rod, one of Orvis's less expensive rods when I bought it.

I like to fish for brook trout with dry flies even if there is no obvious surface action.

 

[wildtrout2]

I like to fish for brook trout with dry flies even if there is no obvious surface action.

I've noticed that to be the case more often than not on brookie streams. I fish a dry more than anything else. Love the visual aspect of fishing dries.

 

[kbobb]

Couple thoughts/questions.
Are the fish really only 2-3"?

What size fly were you using? For fish this small I'd guess if you're using anything bigger than an 18 they might not be getting it all in their mouth and maybe that's why you didn't hook up solidly - a 2" brookie is like a minnow.

Second I'm not sure any rod is really sensitive enough to feel a 2-3" fish take, heck some/most times we don't even feel a 10" fish take. Most of my brookie fishing is with dries so I see it rather than feel.

Third if the stream I'm on only has 3" brookies I'd be looking elsewhere.

Also I have a 7'3" Steffen glass rod and a 7' Orvis bamboo I like a lot for that type fishing. I keep smacking limbs with longer rods like 8'ers.

 

[CinnamonJoe]

For places like this: Shaw Run, Blair Co, June

(which is a smallish, mtn freestone stream, populated mostly with brookies)

I use 'this':

...which is a 7'0 5wt cane rod. It is a m/71, which is a Montgomery Wards ("Sportking") label of the Horrocks & Ibbottson Tonka Prince, made in the 1940s-early 1950s. It weighs 4.1 oz. They aren't impossible to find, but modern glass and cane makers can set you up with something very similar, depending on your budget. If you are handy and into DIY, you could save some $ building it yourself from components (blank, guides, grip, etc.) .I find it has a 'faster' action for cane, but still slower than modern carbon. Lots of opinions; yes, and here is mine: I favor cane and glass, no more than 7'6" in the above situation. The heavier line loads these shorter sticks quick: and these rods, with a little practice, will send your fly where you want it to be, in tight quarters.

Joe

 

[6xAdams(Jones)]

It was the 6'6" rod I was fishing with. Even though a shorter rod seems better for tighter streams, it felt too short in a way. I had to have to have a lot of fly line out to reach any pocket without standing right over top of it, and ever time I'd start stripping the line in to land a brookie, they'd pop off, regardless of how solidly it felt like they were hooked. I was going to go for a 7ft, but maybe I'll go for a 7.5 ft.

Sleepy, I didn't see that you related the length of your leader. For a short rod, I've found that it should be no more than a foot longer than the rod length. At least that's what I've seen recommended and it works better for me.

 

[SleepySheep]

Sleepy, I didn't see that you related the length of your leader. For a short rod, I've found that it should be no more than a foot longer than the rod length. At least that's what I've seen recommended and it works better for me.

That might have been part of my issue. I only have typical 9ft premade leaders, which seems a little long for a 6'6" rod. Would it still be too long for a 7.5 footer?

I'm old, so this might not matter much. Anyhow, I use a 6 1/2-foot, 4-wt, when I am targeting brookies, which I don't get to do much anymore. It is a nice small-stream rod with a moderately quick action, though if I were buying another one, I would get the same length but try a 3-wt. Mine is an old rod: an Orvis Rocky Mountain rod, one of Orvis's less expensive rods when I bought it.

I like to fish for brook trout with dry flies even if there is no obvious surface action.

I did try some dry flies on that fateful day that the brookies shamed me, but honestly I had a really tough time actually seeing the dry fly against the glare of the water, with and without polarized glasses. I think that is something I may need practice with.

Couple thoughts/questions.
Are the fish really only 2-3"?

What size fly were you using? For fish this small I'd guess if you're using anything bigger than an 18 they might not be getting it all in their mouth and maybe that's why you didn't hook up solidly - a 2" brookie is like a minnow.

Second I'm not sure any rod is really sensitive enough to feel a 2-3" fish take, heck some/most times we don't even feel a 10" fish take. Most of my brookie fishing is with dries so I see it rather than feel.

Third if the stream I'm on only has 3" brookies I'd be looking elsewhere.

Also I have a 7'3" Steffen glass rod and a 7' Orvis bamboo I like a lot for that type fishing. I keep smacking limbs with longer rods like 8'ers.

I was mostly using nymphs size #14 and smaller. Often the brookies chose to attack my brightly colored indicator instead v.v I haven't had the pleasure of fishing any place with *big* brookies. Just small wild streams. I think the biggest brookie I've ever caught couldn't have been more than 5-6 inches, and most of them have been 3-4". That being said, I can catch them pretty readily on little JDM spoons, and I can certainly feel them fight on my UL spinning set up (you can feel a minnow fight on the Daiwa presso). In my heart I want something that sensitive, but I don't think it really exists in fly rods.

 

[6xAdams(Jones)]

That might have been part of my issue. I only have typical 9ft premade leaders, which seems a little long for a 6'6" rod. Would it still be too long for a 7.5 footer?

FWIW, I also have a 7'-8" 3 weight. I use an 8' leader for that one and 7.5' for the short rod. (We make our own tapered leaders.)

 

[Bamboozle]

To downplay issues related to fly size, fish size and rod action, this fish, (and more than few of similar size) were caught this day at this stream on my 6'6" very slow Winston Retro glass rod using a size 16 EWC:

In regards to leader length, I'm in the short leader camp for short rods for a couple of reasons...

Long leaders get you into trouble on brushy streams and they aren't necessary for delicate presentation on small water that is usually broken.

When you fish a long leader on a short rod and are casting short distances, you are casting about 80% leader & 20% fly line (or less) which relates to less fly line out past the tip top so you rod feels UNDER-loaded with less control.

On my rods from 5'0" to 7'0", I am most often fishing a leader from 5 foot to 6 foot long AND I have fished nothing but 3 feet of tippet connected loop-to-loop to the end of my fly line on REALLY tight water....

And the fish didn't care ONE bit.

 

[tomgamber]

Its easier for me to do a bow and arrow cast withe a slightly slower, sorter rod.

 

[Clams]

To downplay issues related to fly size, fish size and rod action, this fish, (and more than few of similar size) were caught this day at this stream on my 6'6" very slow Winston Retro glass rod using a size 16 EWC:

View attachment 1641253383

In regards to leader length, I'm in the short leader camp for short rods for a couple of reasons...

Long leaders get you into trouble on brushy streams and the aren't necessary for delicate presentation on small water that is usually broken.

When you fish a long leader on a short rod and are casting short distances, you are casting about 80% leader & 20% fly line (or less) which relates to less fly line out past the tip top so you rod feels UNDER-loaded with less control.

On my rods from 5'0" to 7'0", I am most often fishing a leader from 5 foot to 6 foot long AND I have fished nothing but 3 feet of tippet connected loop-to-loop to the end of my fly line on REALLY tight water....

And the fish didn't care ONE bit.

Agree with this here regarding leader length for small streams. A lot of small streams come with reports/advice to use 12' (or longer) leaders so you don't spook the fish. Well how are you going to cast a 12' leader on a small stream where backcasting is limited or impossible? You wind up with barely any fly line out which is a recipe for getting tangled. As bamboozle said, I find that shorter leaders (7.5') and sometimes no tippet at all can be better in these situations.

Getting back on topic, I have a 7.5' 4wt redington butterstick with an orvis battenkill click reel that I love for smaller water.

 

[JeffK]

One more opinion! I don't like rods shorter than 7' and I am in the longer the better camp. Short rods cast wonderfully, but in moving water it is harder to control the drift and set the hook for me. I had a Bob Brunsell 5' rod that was great for punching streamers in tight quarters where you fish with a tight line, but couldn't set the hook on a dry fly well when the line had some slack. Had a 5' Fenwick once and sold it right away for the same reason.

I also go a touch heavier on the line - starting with a 4 wt. I have a touch more control in tight spaces with a little more weight. I even used to go with a level line since it could load the rod quicker with little line out. However, now it hard to find level lines. Long, gentle tapers don't always have enough weight out to cast in tight situations. BTW, back in the 70's the PA dream small stream rod was the Fenwick 765 - 7 1/2' 5 wt. Old timers will tout the heavier line for short casts. For bow and arrow casts need a short leader and heavier line to have enough weight to shoot.

Also, the comments on short leaders are spot on. If the leader is too long then there is no weight to turn over the fly. Fishing with only a leader is no fun unless you are Euronymphing.

One more opinion to stir the pot.

 

[SleepySheep]

To downplay issues related to fly size, fish size and rod action, this fish, (and more than few of similar size) were caught this day at this stream on my 6'6" very slow Winston Retro glass rod using a size 16 EWC:

View attachment 1641253383

In regards to leader length, I'm in the short leader camp for short rods for a couple of reasons...

Long leaders get you into trouble on brushy streams and the aren't necessary for delicate presentation on small water that is usually broken.

When you fish a long leader on a short rod and are casting short distances, you are casting about 80% leader & 20% fly line (or less) which relates to less fly line out past the tip top so you rod feels UNDER-loaded with less control.

On my rods from 5'0" to 7'0", I am most often fishing a leader from 5 foot to 6 foot long AND I have fished nothing but 3 feet of tippet connected loop-to-loop to the end of my fly line on REALLY tight water....

And the fish didn't care ONE bit.

I'll have to consider using shorter leaders then. It seems the 9ft premades are very common, but I suppose I'll have to make my own if I want a specific length.

I've decided to make this build a 3wt, 7.5ft. With that in mind, what length of leader should I make for the small stream situation? Do you have a formula you can recommend? Is there any brand of mono you prefer?

Fwiw the one part of my set up I wasn't worried about is fly size. Brookies are hungry and the little guys will readily hit on a spoon nearly their own size. I had no trouble getting them to bite down on my nymphs. Just couldn't get them to stay on there while stripping in!

 

[6xAdams(Jones)]

I've decided to make this build a 3wt, 7.5ft. With that in mind, what length of leader should I make for the small stream situation? Do you have a formula you can recommend? Is there any brand of mono you prefer?

The web is full of this or that leader formula, most of which will provide section lengths and recommended materials. I think a lot of them are based on "George Harvey" leader formulae. You can experiment, but for a 7.5' rod, start with a 7.5' leader (including tippet). You'll get a lot of practice tying blood knots and/or double surgeon's knots.

 

[Tiogadog]

Late to the original topic but I have two small stream rods that I use here in Shenandoah NP. For early in the season I have an 8ft 3 weight Redington RS3. I absolutely love this rod and occasionally check Ebay to see about buying another one. This is the small stream rod I take to Colorado for high mountain streams.

I also have an Echo 7'3" two weight for later in the season.

The Redington will load a longer leader while I tend to go with a 7.5 foot leader on the Echo.