Yellow Breeches

Bamboozle said:
In areas where it is not possible to facilitate commerce ON the rivers; the INTENDED reason for the outdated and stupid out of date laws...

Yes...
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For the record, I agree with your stance the law is stupid. Our opinions differ with how you fix it. My reason is that I don't think it can be fixed without a hard all encompassing answer, which is why it will never get fixed.
 
joebamboo said:
That's not the issue at all. It is about them being able decide who and when someone can have access to state and co op fish. A "free permit" from a land owner in order to fish for state stocked trout is in my opinion, if not already, should be illegal.
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Thats backward. If they own the land they can restrict access. If the state chooses to no longer stock it. So be it. You don't get to trespass just because its stocked.
 
joebamboo said:
That's not the issue at all. It is about them being able decide who and when someone can have access to state and co op fish. A "free permit" from a land owner in order to fish for state stocked trout is in my opinion, if not already, should be illegal.
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The PFBC will surely quit stocking it.
 
Bamboozle said:
In areas where it is not possible to facilitate commerce ON the rivers; the INTENDED reason for the outdated and stupid out of date laws...

Yes...
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Dear Bamboozle,

The PA Riparian Rights laws, ie. - the idea that landowners own the stream bottom, are based on English Common Law circa 1682 when William Penn settled. We haven't been English subjects since 1776 so that is certainly one old law that should be eliminated, don't you agree? 😉

Regards,

Tim Murphy 🙂
 
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What a load of ****. I don’t fish it often, but it was nice to go there, especially when I was learning. People on this forum may stay away, but I’m sure during the weekends especially all of the permits will be spoken for. There are other options than posting. One of the pictures that was posted shows the section of the Run near the upper parking lot, so they are closing off the entire C&R section. They definitely did this for on purpose after the stocking and I hope that the state stocks 0 fish from now on.

I am a member of the Yellow Breeches and I am going to ask them to not stock there as well. I don’t want my money going to private waters.

Allenberry also is losing Keystone Theatrics apparently (the company that puts on the plays there). They didn’t upgrade the theater like they had promised (HVAC system sucks specifically), so the group has declined to continue putting on shows there after this season.

I hope both of these things hit them in the check book. Lots of books are going to need to update their info, many say you can park at the Allenberry property with no issue.
 
I think I have a different understanding of the spirit of the law. The spirit of the law being that water ways of a particular size should kept available for public use. The navigable qualifier is just that, a qualifier used to prove the water way is of reasonable size. In PA, the courts have seemed to decide that historic commerce proves the qualifier. It some states it is merely the ability to float a log down the stream.

I believe the long list of waterways that the state believes to be public use but have not yet been tried in court reflects the spirit of the law.
 
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Just FYI and to clarify some things that have been insinuated or implied further up this thread. . .

Cumberland Valley Trout Unlimited (CVTU) has done many improvement projects on Breeches, but the one completed in Allenberry that is under discussion was not one of them. Nor, for that matter, is CVTU involved in any way with the Allenberry's ownership and their plans for the site.

Precision Fly Fishing company is also not involved with Allenberry and has no role in this new permit plan. Precision guides will not be working in this section of water if this permit program continues.

Carry on. . .
 
Everyone is gonna have to watch out for the Allenberry Game Wardens.

Think they will check it at night? I’ll take up mousing just to spite them.
 

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Dave_W said:
Just FYI and to clarify some things that have been insinuated or implied further up this thread. . .

Cumberland Valley Trout Unlimited (CVTU) has done many improvement projects on Breeches, but the one completed in Allenberry that is under discussion was not one of them. Nor, for that matter, is CVTU involved in any way with the Allenberry's ownership and their plans for the site.

Precision Fly Fishing company is also not involved with Allenberry and has no role in this new permit plan. Precision guides will not be working in this section of water if this permit program continues.

Carry on. . .
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Hope TCO follows suit.
 
Olddominionsmoke said:
One of the pictures that was posted shows the section of the Run near the upper parking lot, so they are closing off the entire C&R section...
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The Run from the source to about 300 feet above the mouth is owned by the PFBC & South Middleton Township so that area would be technically unaffected.
 
Most of us know of Harman's Cabins in WV. My wife and I stay there, I go to fish. I think Allenberry has the same think in mind. Harman's buys the fish and limits access to their guests.
 
Bamboozle said:
Not exactly accurate as for a short distance there are a few different property owners on the north side including South Middleton Township. However, that is hair splitting as it would be hard to fish there and stay on that side of the creek..

Personally, I think a permit will be a logistical nightmare to enforce so I don't get their point except as a precursor to a fee based permit or guests only access.

However, I think free permit or not, they are restricting access to a PFBC stocked trout section so I feel the PFBC Section 03 stocking scheduled for April 22 should be CANCELLED and the fish re-allocated to Sections 04 and/or 02.

In addition, if this restriction access remains in place, I also think the PFBC should consider rescinding the Catch & Release Artificials Only Special Regulation on Section 03 and let Boiling Springs Holdings, LLC DBA Allenberry Resort & Spa buy their own fish and manage/regulate their property any way they want WITHOUT using my license fees or wasting WCO/PFBC resources....

IMHO - It is pretty sneaky of Allenberry to post this restriction AFTER the March 4th PFBC stocking. Let them buy their own fish if they are going to restrict access. What the Yellow Breeches Anglers COOP does with their fish is their business.

In the meantime, I emailed the Southcentral Regional Law Enforcement Office, gave them my opinion and will follow up with them and the Area 7 Fisheries Management Office tomorrow.

I urge anyone who has an interest in Section 03 of the Yellow Breeches to do the same:

Southcentral Region Law Enforcement
Telephone: (717) 486-7087
Fax: (717) 486-8227
RA-FBSCRLE@pa.gov

Area 7 Fisheries Management
195 Lebo Road
Carlisle, PA 17013-9362
Telephone: (717) 486-3157
Fax: (717) 486-4040

Thanks for the heads-up Joe!!

👍
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Area 7 is aware of it. I’m sure the AFM knows the options, as he has a lot of experience, having worked in Area 6 and Area 5 as well.
 
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