Steelhead 2013-2014 Thread
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ryguyfi
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If the walnut gauge is at 300 and dropping I would def head up. The smaller streams will be fishable by then and the larger streams may be later in the day depending on what other precipitation comes tomorrow.
Ideal for me for the big streams is when it's around 150, but it can go from 300 to 150 in a matter of a few hours.
So like Pat said... there you go. May fish and may not by tomorrow.
Is it better to head up and get skunked, or sit at home and do nothing?
Ideal for me for the big streams is when it's around 150, but it can go from 300 to 150 in a matter of a few hours.
So like Pat said... there you go. May fish and may not by tomorrow.
Is it better to head up and get skunked, or sit at home and do nothing?
fishingood
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Thank you for the advice, I will definately try everything you discussed, especially in the last paragraph.
I wanted to ask you, do you ever weight fish for your clients when out on the stream, and if so, how do you do it without harming the fish? I have a small digital pocket scale I use for bass fishing, that fits in the bottom pocket of my vest, and I started bringing it on Erie trips last year. Unfortunately, the weighing mechanism is like a small metal hook, and the common method is to putting the hook under the fish's gill slit, or under one of the little grooves under the mouth, obviously probably not the best way to handle the fish, with the entire weight being supported by the jaw, but not necessarily harmful to the fish in itself. Someone told me of the idea of just weighing the fish while it's in the net, by wrapping the loop on the handle of the net around the hook of the scale, and taring the weight of the net in order to get the weight of the fish, or weighing the net before hand, and mentally subtracting the weight from the total weight with the fish in it.
fishingood
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http://forums.fishusa.com/Message/486233-Gauge-Help/
That thread may be of some assistance, it shows you a few photos of what condions at Walnut may look like, based on the gauge data.
PatrickC
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I never weigh steelhead. The only responsible way to weigh them would be to suspend the net from a scale, "Zero" the scale out, and then weigh the fish in the net. Too much of a hassle. I'm not a fan of Bogas or scales that you hook the fish with. It's quicker and easier on the fish to get a length and girth and estimate it.
As for fishable gage values.
1. Ryan pretty much hit it, if Walnut is 300-400cfs and dropping, you should find fishable water.
2. Walnut fishes from about 200cfs down.
3. Elk fishes pretty well once Brandy run is somewhere between 12-15cfs. But that can vary based on the season. In the Fall and Spring you have more mud from run-off so it may need to drop more just for 8" of visibility. In the Winter when the ground is frozen, it might fish fine higher than that. Frankly, looking at Uncle John's Elk Creek Cam right now...I would fish Elk right now. Some of it depends on how and what you like to fish.
4. What's happening on the east side of Erie is not always happening on the west side. The east side gets more lake effect rain and snow. Sometimes you judge what you think the Miles are doing based on the Brandy Run and Walnut gages and the Miles are a mess or they can be gin clear. Lake Effect screws up forecasting ;-)
As for fishable gage values.
1. Ryan pretty much hit it, if Walnut is 300-400cfs and dropping, you should find fishable water.
2. Walnut fishes from about 200cfs down.
3. Elk fishes pretty well once Brandy run is somewhere between 12-15cfs. But that can vary based on the season. In the Fall and Spring you have more mud from run-off so it may need to drop more just for 8" of visibility. In the Winter when the ground is frozen, it might fish fine higher than that. Frankly, looking at Uncle John's Elk Creek Cam right now...I would fish Elk right now. Some of it depends on how and what you like to fish.
4. What's happening on the east side of Erie is not always happening on the west side. The east side gets more lake effect rain and snow. Sometimes you judge what you think the Miles are doing based on the Brandy Run and Walnut gages and the Miles are a mess or they can be gin clear. Lake Effect screws up forecasting ;-)
StarvinMarvin
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Fishin, as long as you are aware snagging is a serious issue I am fine but there's no need for an apology. I just wanted to make it aware that with some of your comments that you indeed were setting yourself up. Most of the time you gotta be funny, but also serious on that site. Thick skin is what you need. With that being said let's talk steelies..
CRB
Well-known member
Elk conditions after work3:30 PM Mckane today.
Stream flow up and muddy upstream of mckane. Visibility less than >10". More rain predicted
NWS Erie PA:
Tonight A chance of showers, mainly after 11pm. Cloudy, with a low around 45. Breezy, with a southwest wind 11 to 20 mph. Chance of precipitation is 50%. New precipitation amounts of less than a tenth of an inch possible.
Saturday Showers. High near 50. Southwest wind 8 to 10 mph becoming northwest in the afternoon. Chance of precipitation is 80%. New precipitation amounts between a quarter and half of an inch possible.
Saturday Night Rain showers likely before 10pm, then rain and snow showers likely. Cloudy, with a low around 34. North wind 7 to 9 mph. Chance of precipitation is 70%. New snow accumulation of less than a half inch possible.
Sunday A chance of rain and snow showers before 10am, then a chance of rain showers. Mostly cloudy, with a high near 41. North wind 6 to 8 mph. Chance of precipitation is 30%. New precipitation amounts of less than a tenth of an inch possible.
http://forecast.weather.gov/MapClick.php?lat=42.09210825254959&lon=-80.11917114257812&site=cle&smap=1&marine=0&unit=0&lg=en#.UnQnFkLD_cs
Looks like the very small streams will fish others no.
Stream flow up and muddy upstream of mckane. Visibility less than >10". More rain predicted
NWS Erie PA:
Tonight A chance of showers, mainly after 11pm. Cloudy, with a low around 45. Breezy, with a southwest wind 11 to 20 mph. Chance of precipitation is 50%. New precipitation amounts of less than a tenth of an inch possible.
Saturday Showers. High near 50. Southwest wind 8 to 10 mph becoming northwest in the afternoon. Chance of precipitation is 80%. New precipitation amounts between a quarter and half of an inch possible.
Saturday Night Rain showers likely before 10pm, then rain and snow showers likely. Cloudy, with a low around 34. North wind 7 to 9 mph. Chance of precipitation is 70%. New snow accumulation of less than a half inch possible.
Sunday A chance of rain and snow showers before 10am, then a chance of rain showers. Mostly cloudy, with a high near 41. North wind 6 to 8 mph. Chance of precipitation is 30%. New precipitation amounts of less than a tenth of an inch possible.
http://forecast.weather.gov/MapClick.php?lat=42.09210825254959&lon=-80.11917114257812&site=cle&smap=1&marine=0&unit=0&lg=en#.UnQnFkLD_cs
Looks like the very small streams will fish others no.
CRB
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I would call this weekend a wash out if travel is required.
TimRobinsin
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we were a the mouth for the entire day on thursday. we got there early and locked down the log jam. Fished well throughout the day until about 4pm then the high water made it down to us. The water spread the fish out and made us work a little harder but it also brought fresh fish in.
We had a blast and caught a ton.
BTW - Best Pizza in NWPA = Teresa's … HOLY BLEEP it was good!
We had a blast and caught a ton.
BTW - Best Pizza in NWPA = Teresa's … HOLY BLEEP it was good!
salmonoid
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Here is my photogenic contribution from Wednesday. An interesting sidebar on the mouse steelhead:
I was fishing at the head of the Manchester Hole and a group of about six guys was spread out below me. The guy directly below me kept nailing me with his backcast and he kept saying "Sorry!". After the third time, I told him to watch his backcast, as that was the third time he hooked me. Shortly thereafter, I teased the steelhead into striking the mouse. As soon as I hooked it, one of the guy's buddies offered me a net, but I declined it. I eventually landed the fish and the guy's buddy came running up. He wanted to know if it was a trout. I said yes. He wanted to know if it was a brown trout. I said no. I told him it was a steelhead, basically a big lake-run rainbow. He wanted to know what I caught it on and I said a mouse. A mouse he said??? Yep. Then, he asked if I was going to keep it. I said no. I was going to release it. He pleaded with me to give him the fish, stating he was new to this and he hadn't caught any fish yet. He showed me his setup (egg sac) and wanted to know if it was ok to catch fish, which I assured him it was, if properly fished. He pleaded with me again to give him the fish but I told him I was going to release it, so he could catch it. It left me wondering if it is really that much of a perceived status thing to be hauling around a fish on the tribs.
To speak to the flossing/snagging/lining discussion earlier in this thread, earlier in the day, the first fish I saw caught after I got there was foul hooked in the back. The guy that hooked it played it like it was a fair hook and then proceeded to rope it, and trot around lower Walnut. I bit my tongue. Towards the end of the day, I saw at least two people chucking lead and it's somewhat of a dead giveaway that when you are fishing in pretty low clear conditions, you don't need more than a small shot. Anything bigger than that is designed to ensnare fish. Especially when you cast and lift up and cast again within two seconds. I was happy that neither snagger was able to snag a fish but wasn't exactly sure how they could possibly not, given the fish density. I guess 20% of the snaggers snag 80% of the fish..
I definitely believe steelhead do more than react to an offering. Several actively chased my leech and Crazy Charlie. One gunned down my mouse. It is of course entirely possibly to floss and line them too but to say that all steelhead are caught by snaggers is not my experience. It does remind me of a discussion I followed on Fisherie years ago, in which fly-fisherman were accused of lifting the fish, by floating the fly into the steelhead's mouth. Some contingent took up the cry of "Die, lifter, die!", which to this day is what my brothers and I hurl at each other, every time we hook a fish.
Direct link for those who are spared the scourge of Flash:
https://picasaweb.google.com/108467945958594625406/103013?authuser=0&authkey=Gv1sRgCLHivO_9uJ__3gE&feat=directlink
I was fishing at the head of the Manchester Hole and a group of about six guys was spread out below me. The guy directly below me kept nailing me with his backcast and he kept saying "Sorry!". After the third time, I told him to watch his backcast, as that was the third time he hooked me. Shortly thereafter, I teased the steelhead into striking the mouse. As soon as I hooked it, one of the guy's buddies offered me a net, but I declined it. I eventually landed the fish and the guy's buddy came running up. He wanted to know if it was a trout. I said yes. He wanted to know if it was a brown trout. I said no. I told him it was a steelhead, basically a big lake-run rainbow. He wanted to know what I caught it on and I said a mouse. A mouse he said??? Yep. Then, he asked if I was going to keep it. I said no. I was going to release it. He pleaded with me to give him the fish, stating he was new to this and he hadn't caught any fish yet. He showed me his setup (egg sac) and wanted to know if it was ok to catch fish, which I assured him it was, if properly fished. He pleaded with me again to give him the fish but I told him I was going to release it, so he could catch it. It left me wondering if it is really that much of a perceived status thing to be hauling around a fish on the tribs.
To speak to the flossing/snagging/lining discussion earlier in this thread, earlier in the day, the first fish I saw caught after I got there was foul hooked in the back. The guy that hooked it played it like it was a fair hook and then proceeded to rope it, and trot around lower Walnut. I bit my tongue. Towards the end of the day, I saw at least two people chucking lead and it's somewhat of a dead giveaway that when you are fishing in pretty low clear conditions, you don't need more than a small shot. Anything bigger than that is designed to ensnare fish. Especially when you cast and lift up and cast again within two seconds. I was happy that neither snagger was able to snag a fish but wasn't exactly sure how they could possibly not, given the fish density. I guess 20% of the snaggers snag 80% of the fish..
I definitely believe steelhead do more than react to an offering. Several actively chased my leech and Crazy Charlie. One gunned down my mouse. It is of course entirely possibly to floss and line them too but to say that all steelhead are caught by snaggers is not my experience. It does remind me of a discussion I followed on Fisherie years ago, in which fly-fisherman were accused of lifting the fish, by floating the fly into the steelhead's mouth. Some contingent took up the cry of "Die, lifter, die!", which to this day is what my brothers and I hurl at each other, every time we hook a fish.
Direct link for those who are spared the scourge of Flash:
https://picasaweb.google.com/108467945958594625406/103013?authuser=0&authkey=Gv1sRgCLHivO_9uJ__3gE&feat=directlink
troutwilleatflies
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Fishin,when using the landing glove you would grab the fish at the tail,then you can remove the hook and release it or suspend it at the belly with other hand to take a photo.There is minimal slime removed with this method.
To estimate the weight of Steelhead take a measurement and subtract 20......29" minus 20 = 9 lbs.I find this to be very close estimate of the weight.
To estimate the weight of Steelhead take a measurement and subtract 20......29" minus 20 = 9 lbs.I find this to be very close estimate of the weight.
the_last_waltz
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so a 21 inch steelhead weighs 1 pound?
ryguyfi
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a 29" steelhead is probably in the 7-8lb range. Most fish are 24-30" and will range from 6-9lbs depending on girth. A 12lb steelhead is pretty rare and those are going to be in the 33-35" range and most of those are 4 year fish.
The conditions in Erie right now look next to perfect. Depending on how much rain they get and how it falls tomorrow may be similar or even a bit better. Greenish tint, good flows and fish will be moving.
The conditions in Erie right now look next to perfect. Depending on how much rain they get and how it falls tomorrow may be similar or even a bit better. Greenish tint, good flows and fish will be moving.
CRB
Well-known member
Started raining at day brake. Let the dog out back porch was dry geared up and it started pouring like yesterday when I was leaving for work. It has been off and on all morning. Next week (thursday)I will try to post some pictures before everyone leaves for the weekend of conditions.
fishingood
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Fished 16 mile all day yesterday, rained pretty steady all day, not exactly the "spotty showers" they were calling for. Water was stained and dark, but a lot of fish around, started in the lower section, amazingly, if you avoid the congregation of shoulder to shoulder people right at the falls and walk down, there are plenty of ridges and small divets that hold fish, found one and was sharing a lot of fish with two other guys, one on the far side, and a very nice disabled veteran new to fly fishing who I helped out a bit. Had many hook ups here, landed one steelhead, and one large spawned out hen brown trout both on white streamers (it actually seemed much bigger than it looks in the pick, this time, I didn't gill bang it either :roll🙂
Moved up to the upper falls, suprisingly, not a lot of crowd up here, had several hook ups, caught two (one I took the hook out and it flopped and swam away, accidently foul hooked one as well). On the way out, met a very nice off duty guide, who shared some of his hot flies with me, and gave me copies to try to duplicate myself. Hoping to head up this weekend, if I can talk the lady into it.
Moved up to the upper falls, suprisingly, not a lot of crowd up here, had several hook ups, caught two (one I took the hook out and it flopped and swam away, accidently foul hooked one as well). On the way out, met a very nice off duty guide, who shared some of his hot flies with me, and gave me copies to try to duplicate myself. Hoping to head up this weekend, if I can talk the lady into it.
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fishingood
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Thank you very much, really hoping to get up, of course, my lady is a spin fisherman, hopefully she doesn't lose too many points there.
On that note, maybe someone can help me out here. If I wanna bring someone who studies and works in PA, but isn't a bona-fide resident here, up to Erie to fish, I'll probably have them get a- 3 day tourist license. I take it that the tourist licenses include trout/ salmon and Erie fishing privileges? I ask because the Summary of Regulations handbook doesn't really say much about it, just "all privliges included", in the little table where they, yet in the online store, you can click to buy the tourist license, along with trout and or erie permits, and no error messages or anything come up.
On that note, maybe someone can help me out here. If I wanna bring someone who studies and works in PA, but isn't a bona-fide resident here, up to Erie to fish, I'll probably have them get a- 3 day tourist license. I take it that the tourist licenses include trout/ salmon and Erie fishing privileges? I ask because the Summary of Regulations handbook doesn't really say much about it, just "all privliges included", in the little table where they, yet in the online store, you can click to buy the tourist license, along with trout and or erie permits, and no error messages or anything come up.
