sixfootfenwick
Well-known member
Take it to another thread.
This is a beginner thread about fishing for large wild brook trout, side topics always happens and I welcome that but it looks like he (the OP ) is trying to get it back on topic.
Big Native Brook Trout
- Thread starter Mikey2006
- Start date
This is a beginner thread about fishing for large wild brook trout, side topics always happens and I welcome that but it looks like he (the OP ) is trying to get it back on topic.
sixfootfenwick
Well-known member
Absolutely fish that pond.
Look at historical holding sites, since the fall of PA brook trout, that hold larger brook trout.
1) Big Spring. In the days of yore big brook trout got big there due to excellent food and slow velocity from the mill ponds. The recent restoration was aimed at slowing velocity to favor brook trout.
2) Beaver Dams. Again better habitat than a stream is used to and slow velocity.
3) I know of more than a few streams that run into water supplies and or Lakes. These areas have fish that migrate in and out of the Lake or water supply. Often producing a few larger specimens. Again a slow velocity.
4) AMD recovering streams. This has more to do with less competition.
5) larger watersheds with many tributaries with brook trout that can migrate in and out of the larger watersheds. Better habitat, more food and slower velocity in large pools.
So yes, Fish that pond!!
Brook trout prefer lower velocity. It's one of many reasons being confined to high gradient streams keeps them small.
hooker-of-men
Well-known member
The one caveat I'll add to the enthusiastic responses above is that right now if that slow water is very cold and fish are actually laying at the bottom of a 10 foot pool, it could be quite tough to reach/move them.
So, if the "pond" doesn't deliver immediately, it would still be a good idea to see what's going on in there when it warms up a bit.
Bamboozle
Well-known member
Mikey:
I fish a lot in the dead of winter for wild fish.
A couple of fly fishing things:
1. I catch most of my fish on flies fished below the surface. My top producers are Bead Head (BH) Prince Nymphs, BH Flash Back Gold Ribbed Hares (GRHE) Ear Nymphs, BH Brassie Nymphs and some soft hackle flies like Partridge & Orange, Purple & Snipe and GRHE soft hackle flies.
2. Use an indicator, it will be a lot easier for you as a beginner.
3. Knowing the Franklin County places where you are mostly likely fishing, I would make sure any dry flies you fish are heavily hackled so they float longer. Dry flies like an Elk Wing Caddis and Humpies are my go to flies for Franklin County wild trout streams.
4. If you do fish dry flies, greasing your leader all the way to the fly will help a lot keep those flies floating in faster & broken water and help keep them from getting pulled under when you pick up your fly for the next cast. Trust me, the fish won't care at all.
A couple of spin fishing things (to pi$$ off the purists 😉):
1. I know you already realize that it doesn't have to be just "spinners." Explore the world of Bait Finesse and you will discover tiny plugs and spoons (some with single hooks) that kick butt on trout.
2. I fish flies on a spinning rod all the time using a tiny foam float and split shot. Mostly I am fishing nymphs & streamers however IF you can find really small plastic floats or the smallest foam versions with no weight, you can fish dry flies too.
3. It's not a monumental task to repalce treble hooks with singles. I did it to all of my lures last year. If you have questions about it, PM me.
Have fun!!!
To add slightly to what Bamboozle recommended, when streams are high, moving fast, or well off color, keep small spoons in your arsenal. Their extra weight will quickly the lure down to where the fish are and some have really great action. Replace the generally small, stock trebles with larger trebles (I think mine are sz 10’s with a wide gap between the hook shank and the point) or break off one tine and you’ll be set to fish over wild trout where aggressive sub-legal fish often engulf all three hooks at the edge of their mouths.
- Joined
- May 3, 2011
- Messages
- 6,612
Sometimes in the Winter, I’ll just fish a hopper as my indicator. I’ll use a bigger/heavier nymph, and drop it further off the dry, than I do in warmer weather. I’m not really trying to catch fish on it, but darn it if some of those things won’t try to eat the hopper, even in the cold. And a few will even succeed.
Big advantage of a hopper (or other highly buoyant dry - think foam) in lieu of an indicator is it’s easier to cast and you can make your casts from further away, which can be key to avoiding spooking fish in the tailouts. One spooked dink in the tailout will shoot up through the hole for the cover of the heavier water at the head, and spook the Pool Boss in the primo lie. Any time I don’t catch, or at least miss, a fish in a really nice pool on a Brookie stream where I’m getting otherwise pretty consistent action, I assume this has happened, even if I didn’t see it happen, and I need to think out a better approach for next time. Or, there’s a big rogue Brown in that pool, too smart to fool with my silly antics. 😳
This is another relative advantage of spin tackle sometimes…You can toss a well weighted spinner from a country mile away with the flick of your wrist.
Big advantage of a hopper (or other highly buoyant dry - think foam) in lieu of an indicator is it’s easier to cast and you can make your casts from further away, which can be key to avoiding spooking fish in the tailouts. One spooked dink in the tailout will shoot up through the hole for the cover of the heavier water at the head, and spook the Pool Boss in the primo lie. Any time I don’t catch, or at least miss, a fish in a really nice pool on a Brookie stream where I’m getting otherwise pretty consistent action, I assume this has happened, even if I didn’t see it happen, and I need to think out a better approach for next time. Or, there’s a big rogue Brown in that pool, too smart to fool with my silly antics. 😳
This is another relative advantage of spin tackle sometimes…You can toss a well weighted spinner from a country mile away with the flick of your wrist.
Last edited:
Fish Sticks
Well-known member
Side note for those interested in how brook trout genetics work, what forces are shaping them genetically, and what adaptation can do for them…….
Your invited to the Eastern Brook Trout Joint Venture’s “Lunch and Learn” with experts Dr. Shannon White and Dr. David Kazyak who will be putting this on Feb 6th at 1pm. You must pre-register but you can also pre submit brook trout conservation genetics questions that will be answered live. Open to all.
Register here
easternbrooktrout.org
Your invited to the Eastern Brook Trout Joint Venture’s “Lunch and Learn” with experts Dr. Shannon White and Dr. David Kazyak who will be putting this on Feb 6th at 1pm. You must pre-register but you can also pre submit brook trout conservation genetics questions that will be answered live. Open to all.
Register here
Lunch n'Learn: Importance of isolation, drift, and genetics for conservation of native Brook Trout — EBTJV
Feb 6, 2023, noon, available by registration
I use both spinning & fly gear when trout fishing. I'll add to the mix:
1. & 3. I replaced all the treble hooks on my spinners & spoons (mostly fished in CO) with Gamakatsu #8 or #10 open-eye Siwash hooks last year when using spinning gear for trout fishing. Works great, far fewer snags in shallow creeks & rivers, and much easier to release fish. Mash the barbs....
2. I started using flies with my spinning rod (when I'm not using my fly rod) the last couple of months. I've had success tossing my hand-tied flies (not works of art by any means, I just started tying) on an UL rod. Cone head Woolly Buggers, bead head egg patterns, and bead head small caddis or midges all worked. Sometimes using a small foam float & split shot, sometimes just the split shot. And on occasion the egg patterns without either; the WB don't require any float or weight.
sixfootfenwick
Well-known member
Just reposting the OP.
In case everyone wants to keep giving "spinners" advice.
I would consider using heavily weighted wholly buggers in size 10 or 12 this time of year. Black, Olive or brown would do it. In that "pond" let them dead drift to the bottom and twitch them back up.
In the summer and spring a large elk hair Caddis, hopper, stimulator, beetle etc should work.
Don't focus on flies so much. Brook trout eat anything presented well and even sometime presented sloppily.
Focus more on depth of presentation, speed of presentation in relation to time of year.
When it's cold, deep and slow.
When it's warmer, it just doesn't matter much.
pcray1231
Well-known member
Always is a bad word.
But I have watched some proficent in line spinner guys. They reel really fast and will go bonkers over the $200 reel with higher retrieve rates. The cast is such a small little flip it looks like shooting a gun. And there is zero time between retrieve and next cast. If you are drifting nymphs at the speed of a moderate current, they are going MUCH faster than said current. They will make 2 or 3 casts during your drift.
Most commercial spinners are too light. Thats why they make their own.
I say this as a fly fisherman known as a small stream guy and known to move pretty quickly and cover water. I've fished with Swattie when he's had a spin rod and a fly rod. A buddy's son is a good spin guy too. I've done it myself, though I dont consider myself good at it. I can say, as Swattie did, in a day you throw more casts and cover more water with spinners than fly gear. Spinners, however, kind of rely on active aggressive fish. If you got lethargic browns laying on bottom in ice cold water, not about to chase, those nymphs may work better. Spooky brookies in low clear pocket water where you cant cast beyond them, the splash of a spinner will spook em, flies may work better.
But higher water of good temp, unspooked opportunistic active and aggressive fish. I mean these are the conditions everyone does well. But the spinner will win. In line spinners is nearly on par with jogging upstream, never stopping, just throwing a stick of dynamite in each pool as you pass.
Last edited:
caddisflyer
Well-known member
I don't think using spinners and rapalas is such a bad thing. And I would not get too worked up about barbed or barbless hooks either. To each their own. I have released probably a few hundred trout caught on lures and even bait on spinning rod over the years. You need to carry hemostats and keep the fish in the water. It's just like flyfishing or musky fishing etc. Be prepared with the right tools. I am almost exclusively using a fly rod now except for bass and musky but that was not always the case.
Mikey2006
Well-known member
Really? I didn’t know that, I assumed the eggs hatched already. I usually don’t walk in the creek anyway unless I have to but I’ll make sure to pay extra attention… don’t want to kill the next generation of trout with one wrong step
They will take most flies, I've been dry fly fishing for brookies since thanksgiving, and they seem to take just about any dry fly that sort of look buggy. IT also depends on your water clarify, etc. I fish in clear relatively shallow mountain streams.
Fish Sticks
Well-known member
“Flowing water moves over the eggs and provides oxygen. Water temperature must stay between 35 and 55 degrees for brook and brown trout eggs to survive. The eggs hatch from February to March.”
Most sources will actually tell you through march(up to April). The spawn seems to come a little later so I go with those sources. Those tiny fry crawl out of the gravel just as the roughly 6 million hungry hatchery trout get dumped in.
Mikey2006
Well-known member
Luckily most of the creeks I’ve found brook trout in aren’t stocked, but in the creeks that are stocked over wild populations, what is that state thinking? Isn’t the whole point of stocked trout to imitate a natural trout fishery where there isn’t one? Why mess with fish that are already there?
Fish Sticks
Well-known member
The state is thinking about selling fishing licenses flat out. And since they put all their money, resources, social media and public communications into trying to promote stocked trout they have devalued and hidden brook trout in/from the public eye.
If you want a more broad holistic view of this topic and what could be done id recommend reading the new issue of fly fishermen magazine being released on March 7th. There will be an article that goes more in depth on this subject and challenges Pa fish and boat to clean up their act.
silverfox
Well-known member
- Joined
- Oct 4, 2006
- Messages
- 1,928
Good question. I'd love to know the answer myself.
On the slow water brook trout thing and a bit of tackle type too; I target beaver ponds in the late fall/winter a lot (as long as they're not frozen over). Depending on the water temperature, they may not chase anything enthusiastically, so a slow retrieve while getting down to the bottom is important. This is where a fly is better than anything weighted unless you can drop the spinner etc. to the bottom and bounce it without getting snagged.
The important point here, though, is I'm talking frigid water temperatures. In warmer temps, they'll (the hungry/ambitious ones) usually chase anything stripped through the water regardless of how you got it there. I fished one Saturday with a bunch of snow melt, and the fish were extremely lethargic. I had to drop a micro streamer right next to them and jig it slowly to get them to eat. They weren't moving for anything. Back in the fall pre-spawn every fish in the pool would fight over who got to eat first. Conditions...
More broadly, absolutely nothing wrong with targeting brookies with spinners. I do it in a lot of ponds because there is absolutely no way to backcast with a fly rod in the jungle. I recall a study (or was told about the study from the author) about brook trout and brown trout on the Savage tailwater in MD. They had several anglers fish with spinners and flies. Each fish caught was unhooked by a DNR biologist and held in flow-through boxes in the stream for 24 hours. No spinner or fly-caught brown trout died, but several of the spinner-caught brookies did (none of the fly-caught brookies died). The hypothesis was that brook trout hit the spinners so aggressively that they tended to be hooked deep in the mouth = increased mortality. This is why the tailwater is divided up the way it is. 😉 These were your average anglers, not experts, so it's not to say it's unavoidable, just seems to be typical.
Last edited:
Wild_Trouter
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 30, 2014
- Messages
- 882
Going to try and speed up your learning curve even more. Besides the Golden Retriever streamer I suggested absolutely be in your box...Here is my #1 dry fly because it mimics many insects and is very easy to see when tracking in lower light conditions common on Class A streams. This also floats exceptionally well in rough choppy water. All trout love this one- Mr. Rapidan #12 and #14:
- Joined
- May 3, 2011
- Messages
- 6,612
Going to try and speed up your learning curve even more. Besides the Golden Retriever streamer I suggested absolutely be in your box...Here is my #1 dry fly because it mimics many insects and is very easy to see when tracking in lower light conditions common on Class A streams. This also floats exceptionally well in rough choppy water. All trout love this one- Mr. Rapidan #12 and #14:
Good looking tie. Essentially a very similar pattern to my go to Brookie pattern - Ausable Wulff. I like the yellow in yours though. Lots of yellow bugs on small Brookie streams in the Summer.
pcray1231
Well-known member
I always see white the best. I've tried pink, yellow, etc. posts and white shows up better. Sounds strange since the bubbles are white, but, yeah.
I use a parachute more, I think it works a touch better, but admit they are pretty hit or miss on floatability. A good tie floats well but a lot of crappy ties sink especially in heavier water. Wulff style ties get plenty of use when I'm struggling keeping my parachutes floating.... Coloration less important. I've used standard brown/gray/white Wulff's, Rapidans, and I actually kind of like the Patriot and/or "Royal" color schemes. A touch of blood red seems to help I think, but, it's not like I don't do well with other colors so it's tough to say. They are just generously hackled catskill ties, really, and that's always a winner, and add the high wingpost for visibility.
I use a parachute more, I think it works a touch better, but admit they are pretty hit or miss on floatability. A good tie floats well but a lot of crappy ties sink especially in heavier water. Wulff style ties get plenty of use when I'm struggling keeping my parachutes floating.... Coloration less important. I've used standard brown/gray/white Wulff's, Rapidans, and I actually kind of like the Patriot and/or "Royal" color schemes. A touch of blood red seems to help I think, but, it's not like I don't do well with other colors so it's tough to say. They are just generously hackled catskill ties, really, and that's always a winner, and add the high wingpost for visibility.
