Yellow Breeches

[TimMurphy]

Dear HopBack,

I meant what I said when I wrote it and still do a certain degree. I question whether Orvis would give a rat's patootie seeing how one of their favored places is being received.

But upon reflection it occurred to me that "Orvis Endorsed Lodges" most likely pay a stipend to Orvis for the privilege of announcing that to the world. Nothing is free! In that case Orvis is just as guilty as Allenberry as far as who associates with whom.

Orvis has always promoted themselves as something better than the average angler could afford. In the last 20 years or so they have expanded their offerings to suit the plebians, as their business model tanked. I think endorsed lodges are just another way for Orvis to grasp at straws and hope to hold on.

Like you, I own Orvis gear, but with the exception of a 7'9 1wt, and a pair of stocking foot breathable hippers that still keep me high and dry, all of it has been bought second hand. It's good stuff but was never and will never be my first choice.

Regards,

Tim Murphy 🙂

 

[Matt_Geiman]

Sign now at the Mountain Road lot by the railroad tracks.

 

[salvelinus]

None of this surprises me this day and age...

 

[dc410]

A fairly decent stretch of stream was pretty much screwed up and now they’re making it out to be the greatest stretch of stream to fish - but it’s really not. There are lots of great stretches all over this State to fish! Get after ‘em!

 

[Kms]

Dear joebamboo,

Minor point of contention. No flowing water in the State of Pennsylvania, or anything between the stream bottom and high flow at any given time is privately held. Everything living in the water, as well as the actual water itself is property of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, and that means it's public by definition of the word, Commonwealth.

Regards,

Tim Murphy 🙂

Not sure about the law, but I added a layer with the DCNR’s publicly owned streambeds to the map I posted.

 

[troutbert]

Not sure about the law, but I added a layer with the DCNR’s publicly owned streambeds to the map I posted.

Here is an AI summary of this topic:




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Public Highway Declarations in Pennsylvania​

In Pennsylvania, public highway declarations are formal acts of the General Assembly that designate certain streams, rivers, or waterways as “public highways” — meaning the Commonwealth owns the streambed and associated submerged lands for public use. These declarations are part of the Public Highway Declaration Act and are used to establish navigable waters of the Commonwealth under the Dam Safety and Encroachments Act PA.GOV+1.

Legal Basis​

• General Road Law (Act of June 13, 1836, P.L. 551, No. 169, 36 P.S. §1781 et seq.) – This law governs the opening of roads, including waterways, and authorizes viewers to survey and report changes in road courses. It also provides procedures for opening private roads and erecting bridges PA General Assembly.
• Public Highway Declaration Act – Passed in the late 1700s and early 1800s, it legally declared certain streams as public highways, giving the Commonwealth ownership of the streambed and submerged lands PA.GOV+1.

How They Work​

• Historically, “public highway” meant the waterway was navigable for boats or logs, but the determination is based on historical navigability rather than current use PA.GOV.
• The Commonwealth owns and holds in trust these waters for public benefit, and any obstructions or encroachments on them may require a Submerged Lands License Agreement (SLLA) when applying for certain permits PA.GOV.
• Declarations are recorded in the Pennsylvania Archives and are part of official lists used by the Department of Environmental Protection (DEP) to determine navigable waters

 

[Taimenpala]

Again, it's not there now. The only the last three (non-highlighted) questions remain under Conservation & Stewardship.

Yeah I believe they dropped it after YBAC (according to their facebook page) contacted them and asked them to take that part down.

 

[Bamboozle]

I'm not taking any credit, but I'm happy to report that after several phone inquiries to PFBC Law Enforcement & Fisheries for the area, I see that the scheduled April 22nd stocking of Section 03 of the Yellow Breeches is FINALLY listed as CANCELLED on the Stocking Schedule...

So the PFBC AND the Yellow Breeches Anglers did the right thing by ending their contributions to a semi-private fishery.

It's the end of an era and I feel sorry for the folks that liked fishing at the Allenberry section, but take heart in the knowledge there should be more fish in Sections 02 & 04 or possibly Children's Lake.

It may also put a damper in TCO's business unless they decide to embrace the situation. We will see...

I'd be interested to know from any locals if the Catch & Release Artificials Only signage was taken down...

 

[The Rodfather]

I've had a number of conversations in the last couple months with state congress members and they have all expressed concern once they heard what was going on with Allenberry and PFBC dragging its feet about it. All but 1 also added that they have been hearing more about issues involving PFBC and fly fishing in general. The movement is gaining traction and I have to believe that some of what we are doing is starting to work.

Us at DCLOC will continue to have conversations with those in positions to make change and we encourage you to do tha same. The more our elected officials and appointed officials are educated the more they will make the right decisions.

Please keep up the good work and if any of you are interested in how to get involved, reach out and I will gladly point you in the right direction.

The Rodfather
Engagement Czar and Conservation Chair
Dauphin County League of Chubsmen

 

[Bamboozle]

I've had a number of conversations in the last couple months with state congress members and they have all expressed concern once they heard what was going on with Allenberry and PFBC dragging its feet about it. All but 1 also added that they have been hearing more about issues involving PFBC and fly fishing in general. The movement is gaining traction and I have to believe that some of what we are doing is starting to work...

I'm not trying to throw anyone under the bus (although I am 😉), but the folks at the PFBC Southcentral Regional Law Enforcement Office were totally on board with ending stocking & the special regulation way back on March 8th when I first called them after reading this thread.

I followed up a few times when I didn't see the April 22 stocking listed as cancelled. The last time I asked they told me it was out of their hands, but as far as they were concerned, it wasn't happening, HOWEVER, it was Fisheries responsibility to cancel the stocking. They even offered to contact Fisheries for me, but I declined in favor of calling myself.

I called the Area 7 Fisheries Management office a few times after that conversation going back to April 4th and left messages, but unlike Law Enforcement, they never called me back which quite honestly pi$$es me off...

I don't know if that is the Area 7 Fisheries normal MO, but I do believe the stocking was off the books awhile ago, they just aren't great at updating information for the public or returning phone calls...

 

[Matt_Geiman]

I'd be interested to know from any locals if the water Catch & Release Artificials Only signage was taken down…

There are still C+R signs on the township’s property. This week I asked the regional PFBC office what the plan for the Catch and Release was. They didn’t know.

Per usual plenty of people are ignoring the special regulation signs. Also seeing plenty of people spin fishing downstream on Allenberry’s property. Have not seen any concern from either party. If you park at The Run and head downstream there are no visible signs regarding property boundaries or a permit.

 

[troutbert]

The landowners restricted access and the PFBC quit stocking there, just as expected.

If you want to blame the PFBC for something then pick a REAL issue, such as their continued stocking directly over native brook trout populations.

 

[Bamboozle]

There are still C+R signs on the township’s property. This week I asked the regional PFBC office what the plan for the Catch and Release was. They didn’t know.

Per usual plenty of people are ignoring the special regulation signs. Also seeing plenty of people spin fishing downstream on Allenberry’s property. Have not seen any concern from either party. If you park at The Run and head downstream there are no visible signs regarding property boundaries or a permit.

Ignoring the Special Regulation, how?

BTW - Who historically stocked the Run, PFBC, Yellow Breeches Anglers or are/were the fish escapees from Children's Lake?

I assume the C&R on the township property will go away only because there is only 640 feet of public property which is hardly worth the enforcement effort and Children's Lake is Stocked Trout Waters.

It will be interesting to see what Allenberry does when all of the fish stocked earlier die from fishing mortality or harvest against their own C&R rules.

I also wonder IF they stock their own fish if they will buy them from Yellow Breeches Anglers which would be ironic if they accepted an offer.

Finally, I wonder if they will put any teeth in the enforcement of their rules with a patrolling security force? If not, they will probably hear complaints from sports who book a stay and either catch nothing or run into locals with spinning tackle & buckets of harvested fish... 😉

 

[The Rodfather]

yeah, it would only be a matter of time before Orvis would pull its endorsement when enough people complain there are no fish there anymore. they are milking the hell out of that now in marketing for the resort

 

[redrockgrizzly]

I'm late to the party and didn't read the 14 pages of the thread but I hope the Pa Fish and Boat stops stocking this section of the creek. Since we all buy fishing licenses and trout stamps, I consider all of us owners of those fish. Any restrictions placed on access to those fish should result in zero stocking of that property.

 

[joebamboo]

Ignoring the Special Regulation, how?

BTW - Who historically stocked the Run, PFBC, Yellow Breeches Anglers or are/were the fish escapees from Children's Lake?

I assume the C&R on the township property will go away only because there is only 640 feet of public property which is hardly worth the enforcement effort and Children's Lake is Stocked Trout Waters.

It will be interesting to see what Allenberry does when all of the fish stocked earlier die from fishing mortality or harvest against their own C&R rules.

I also wonder IF they stock their own fish if they will buy them from Yellow Breeches Anglers which would be ironic if they accepted an offer.

Finally, I wonder if they will put any teeth in the enforcement of their rules with a patrolling security force? If not, they will probably hear complaints from sports who book a stay and either catch nothing or run into locals with spinning tackle & buckets of harvested fish... 😉

Bothe the State and Yellow Breeches used to stock The Run, that is no longer the case. Neighter will be putting fish in The Run. A few however may escape through the lake outflow .

 

[Letort]

I also wonder IF they stock their own fish if they will buy them from Yellow Breeches Anglers which would be ironic if they accepted an offer.

Pretty sure I saw (probably earlier this thread) that YBAC will not (cannot) provide fish to a private party due to their agreement as a PBFC co-op.

Allenberry would be forced to stock the stream from a private raiser, which are available. However, they have become fewer and farther apart, and the trout at catchable size are in excess of $7 per fish. Also, most of the capacity of the existing farms is already spoken for. Long standing private clubs have relationships with the producers.

To stock that stretch for only clients will become very expensive, very quickly, if that is how they want to go.

 

[JG63]

Bothe the State and Yellow Breeches used to stock The Run, that is no longer the case. Neighter will be putting fish in The Run. A few however may escape through the lake outflow .

There’s not enough water in the run to even provide cover - after the “improvements”‘and the new dam fittings - the structure, deep holes, outside undercuts and such are gone - the water is shin deep for the first 100 yards with a few v breaks with tree canopy just before emptying into the breeches - it doesn’t hold trout like it once did - I suspect the hatches are severely impacted after repaving the stream bottom for the first 70 yards down from the lake outlet

 

[HopBack]

If I was running a business and my main selling point was fishing, I would absolutely exclude as many as I could and fill it will pellet pigs. Orvis endorses many experiences like this. It’s not one I can relate to but one that certainly many with a higher level of income can and it will pay the bills that’s for sure. I’m truly sorry for the loss of this historical section of trout water. I have never been interested in special regs water and never once fished it. I love the breeches and prefer the less crowded, less stocked, and more wild trout experience the upper reaches has to offer.

 

[Biggie]

Ignoring the Special Regulation, how?

BTW - Who historically stocked the Run, PFBC, Yellow Breeches Anglers or are/were the fish escapees from Children's Lake?

I assume the C&R on the township property will go away only because there is only 640 feet of public property which is hardly worth the enforcement effort and Children's Lake is Stocked Trout Waters.

It will be interesting to see what Allenberry does when all of the fish stocked earlier die from fishing mortality or harvest against their own C&R rules.

I also wonder IF they stock their own fish if they will buy them from Yellow Breeches Anglers which would be ironic if they accepted an offer.

Finally, I wonder if they will put any teeth in the enforcement of their rules with a patrolling security force? If not, they will probably hear complaints from sports who book a stay and either catch nothing or run into locals with spinning tackle & buckets of harvested fish... 😉

The YBAC cannot sell their fish. They are provided by PFBC to raise and stock in public water. Just saying.