Yellow Breeches

[ROVERT]

It's a fact, not an opinion. Navigable waterways in Pennsylvania are defined by their historic use as highways for commerce, granting the public rights to fish and navigate, largely managed by the PA Fish and Boat Commission. Major navigable rivers include the Allegheny, Susquehanna, Ohio, Monongahela, and Clarion. Public access includes these major rivers, streams, and lakes, while private, non-navigable streams are typically owned by adjacent landowners.

It's a bit trickier than that. You can identify a handful of rivers that have been deemed navigable by the courts as a fact. Essentially, everything else is TBD. The state (DCNR) maintains a long list of water ways with publicly owned stream beds. Most of these have not been tried in court. The Yellow Breeches is not on the list but many smaller streams are. Until a court decides, you could say the landowners own the streambed. I'm not sure it is solid fact, though.

I think the following is a prime example. As far as I'm aware, the Sock has not been deemed navigable by a court. I'd give a landowner a 0% chance of winning if tested in court like the Little J was.

 

[tomgamber]

Part of the little J ruling stated, "if a waterway is navigable in fact, it is navigable by law ". I doubt that applies to just any canoe or kayak but with the precedent set but the Little J ruling, the process for determining access has been greatly streamlined and may require minimal if any court action if questioned.

I'm not a lawyer but I did stay in a Holiday Inn last night.

 

[caddisflyer]

I would like to see a law that says if your feet are wet then you are good. Otherwise I think the state or maybe the federal government should seize all flowing water and 20 ft. of bank on either side and give it to the public. Enough with all this arcane navigable waterways crap. if you go up to New York their laws regarding waterways are different than PA. Many states are different. Too many laws and too much confusion. I will add that charging money to access water including the ocean is ridiculous. We have a government that is big on landowner rights but poor at standing up for the general public. The whole private property thing has caused everything from minor disputes to all out wars....Money changing hands and imaginary lines....What a mess.

 

[TimMurphy]

It's a fact, not an opinion. Navigable waterways in Pennsylvania are defined by their historic use as highways for commerce, granting the public rights to fish and navigate, largely managed by the PA Fish and Boat Commission. Major navigable rivers include the Allegheny, Susquehanna, Ohio, Monongahela, and Clarion. Public access includes these major rivers, streams, and lakes, while private, non-navigable streams are typically owned by adjacent landowners.

Dear joebamboo,

Minor point of contention. No flowing water in the State of Pennsylvania, or anything between the stream bottom and high flow at any given time is privately held. Everything living in the water, as well as the actual water itself is property of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, and that means it's public by definition of the word, Commonwealth.

Regards,

Tim Murphy 🙂

 

[joebamboo]

Only three ways to fish that section going forward. With a "free permit", kayak or canoe and finally, walking on water!

 

[keirns4]

I'm not sure, but I thought I heard/read from one of the local news stations that even the landowners at Allenberry said they couldn't do anything about an angler that was already wading in the stream and came down thru their property fishing. Anyone else hear this?

 

[ROVERT]

From the Allenberry website: As an official Orvis-Endorsed Fly Fishing destination, Allenberry offers expert-guided excursions for all experience levels. Learn to cast like a pro, explore private water access, or refine your technique with seasoned instructors. This isn’t just fishing—it’s an immersive, hands-on experience in one of the Mid-Atlantic’s premier fly fishing locales.

They must not have very high confidence in their ability to teach "how to cast like a pro" because they've removed virtually all of the vegetation from the bank on river right.

I know many don't think much of the fishing experience here but I like it for dry fly water. I'll be a bit sad if I caught my last fish there today. I have a lot of memories there from nearly 30 years ago in high school to within the last decade teaching my kids to fish dries.

 

[TimMurphy]

They must not have very high confidence in their ability to teach "how to cast like a pro" because they've removed virtually all of the vegetation from the bank on river right.

View attachment 1641250092

I know many don't think much of the fishing experience here but I like it for dry fly water. I'll be a bit sad if I caught my last fish there today. I have a lot of memories there from nearly 30 years ago in high school to within the last decade teaching my kids to fish dries.

Dear Rovert,

When I first moved to central PA, I used to fish the Yellow Breeches. Paul G, Pudie Paul, on the original PAFF decades ago showed me the easy way into Allenberry. We used to park on the opposite side from Allenberry at the RR crossing and use the well-trodden trail to the dam at the bottom of Allenberry.

Back then, no one cared that people did that. Not even the people who lived in the homes down the lane along the creek below Allenberry They'd wave and ask how we were doing and never said a word if we sat on their bank to change flies or just watch the water.

Times have changed, and not for the good.

Regards,

Tim Murphy 🙂

 

[joebamboo]

For years, about a dozen or so individuals would meet at The Run on Sunday morning just to shoot the crap and reminise about those years fishing the breeches. Sadly, there are only four of us left. All are welcome to join us at the Church of the Run. Usually starts around 8:00 AM.

 

[vealboy]

The access is restricted by the landowner, so PFBC stocking of that stretch will end. That's PFBC policy.

Is that the same PFBC whose policy was no stocking on Class A streams ?

 

[Bamboozle]

T-Minus 5 hours to restricted access on a PFBC stocked section...

 

[Matt_Geiman]

Why 5 hours and not April 4th?

 

[TimMurphy]

Why 5 hours and not April 4th?

Dear Matt,

I'm pretty sure the original post says the permit system at Allenberry would start April 1st.

Regards,

Tim Murphy 🙂

 

[Matt_Geiman]

The signs say April 4th

 

[ROVERT]

I was there yesterday. It's the 4th.

 

[Bamboozle]

D'oh, I guess that explains why I couldn't get a permit this morning... 🙄

 

[Taimenpala]

Well this is an interesting development (hyperlink to the Allenberry website where I found this):

Seems they are limiting access to only YBAC members and guests.

 

[Jay_H]

Maybe I’m misremembering one of the older posts but I thought the YBAC were not stocking that stretch.

 

[Olddominionsmoke]

So much for a free permit. Gotta pay to be a member of the YBAC, this you gotta pay for Allenberry.

YBAC said they weren’t stocking it, sounds like the made a deal with Allenberry to increase their membership. Anyone that stays at Allenberry to fly fish is going to have to join the YBAC

Seems like a dirty move by the YBAC and 2026 will be my last year as a member if that is true. My membership to YBAC goes to help the entire YB, not to stock fish for the high society types at Allenberry.

 

[vern]

I went looking for your post and couldn't find it right away so this is what came up

Cumberland Valley Visitors Bureau

Allenberry Resort a Fly Fishing Lodge in Cumberland Valley

One of only three Orvis-endorsed fly fishing lodges in Cumberland Valley. We ensure that novices and skilled fly fishers get the most out of their experience.

www.visitcumberlandvalley.com