Yellow Breeches

[joebamboo]

Signs posted along the Allenberry owned property:

"Beginning April 4, 2026, fishing from Allenberry property will require a free daily permit'

Permits will be limited each day and available online.

This program is designed to reduce crowding, protect the Yellow Breeches and improve the angling experience"

FWIW, Allenberry owns both sides of the creek from the Arch Stone Bridge to just below the pavillion at Allenberry! Not a good move IMO!

 

[Bamboozle]

FWIW, Allenberry owns both sides of the creek from the Arch Stone Bridge to just below the pavillion at Allenberry! Not a good move IMO!

Not exactly accurate as for a short distance there are a few different property owners on the north side including South Middleton Township. However, that is hair splitting as it would be hard to fish there and stay on that side of the creek..

Personally, I think a permit will be a logistical nightmare to enforce so I don't get their point except as a precursor to a fee based permit or guests only access.

However, I think free permit or not, they are restricting access to a PFBC stocked trout section so I feel the PFBC Section 03 stocking scheduled for April 22 should be CANCELLED and the fish re-allocated to Sections 04 and/or 02.

In addition, if this restriction access remains in place, I also think the PFBC should consider rescinding the Catch & Release Artificials Only Special Regulation on Section 03 and let Boiling Springs Holdings, LLC DBA Allenberry Resort & Spa buy their own fish and manage/regulate their property any way they want WITHOUT using my license fees or wasting WCO/PFBC resources....

IMHO - It is pretty sneaky of Allenberry to post this restriction AFTER the March 4th PFBC stocking. Let them buy their own fish if they are going to restrict access. What the Yellow Breeches Anglers COOP does with their fish is their business.

In the meantime, I emailed the Southcentral Regional Law Enforcement Office, gave them my opinion and will follow up with them and the Area 7 Fisheries Management Office tomorrow.

I urge anyone who has an interest in Section 03 of the Yellow Breeches to do the same:

Southcentral Region Law Enforcement
Telephone: (717) 486-7087
Fax: (717) 486-8227
RA-FBSCRLE@pa.gov

Area 7 Fisheries Management
195 Lebo Road
Carlisle, PA 17013-9362
Telephone: (717) 486-3157
Fax: (717) 486-4040

Thanks for the heads-up Joe!!

👍

 

[joebamboo]

Not exactly accurate as for a short distance there are a few different property owners on the north side including South Middleton Township. However, that is hair splitting as it would be hard to fish there and stay on that side of the creek..

Personally, I think a permit will be a logistical nightmare to enforce so I don't get their point except as a precursor to a fee based permit or guests only access.

However, I think free permit or not, they are restricting access to a PFBC stocked trout section so I feel the PFBC Section 03 stocking scheduled for April 22 should be CANCELLED and the fish re-allocated to Sections 04 and/or 02.

In addition, if this restriction access remains in place, I also think the PFBC should consider rescinding the Catch & Release Artificials Only Special Regulation on Section 03 and let Boiling Springs Holdings, LLC DBA Allenberry Resort & Spa buy their own fish and manage/regulate their property any way they want WITHOUT using my license fees or wasting WCO/PFBC resources....

IMHO - It is pretty sneaky of Allenberry to post this restriction AFTER the March 4th PFBC stocking. Let them buy their own fish if they are going to restrict access. What the Yellow Breeches Anglers COOP does with their fish is their business.

In the meantime, I emailed the Southcentral Regional Law Enforcement Office, gave them my opinion and will follow up with them and the Area 7 Fisheries Management Office tomorrow.

I urge anyone who has an interest in Section 03 of the Yellow Breeches to do the same:

Southcentral Region Law Enforcement
Telephone: (717) 486-7087
Fax: (717) 486-8227
RA-FBSCRLE@pa.gov

Area 7 Fisheries Management
195 Lebo Road
Carlisle, PA 17013-9362
Telephone: (717) 486-3157
Fax: (717) 486-4040

Thanks for the heads-up Joe!!

👍

You are correct, accessing the stream from that side is not an option. As a long time member of the Yellow Breeches Anglers, I would not support the club stocking that section. Let Mr. Kennedy buy his fish!!!! Privatizing that section of the creek has always been his plan. Those who stay at Allenberry are more than likely assured permits thus further prohibiting others from obtaining one!

 

[Bamboozle]

You are correct, accessing the stream from that side is not an option. As a long time member of the Yellow Breeches Anglers, I would not support the club stocking that section. Let Mr. Kennedy buy his fish!!!! Privatizing that section of the creek has always been his plan. Those who stay at Allenberry are more than likely assured permits thus further prohibiting others from obtaining one!

Joe:

You should let Yellow Breeches Anglers know how you feel or at minimum tell them to start charging Allenberry if they want the club to continue stocking...

FWIW - I saw this coming too...

Bottom line, it's their property and they can do as they wish, but PFBC fish shouldn't go in that section and a PFBC Special Regulation has no business being in place...

The PFBC could leave it in place on the Run since they & the Township own that dirt at the source, but the mouth of the Run and maybe 300 feet upstream from the mouth belongs to Allenberry...

I don't fish Section 03 or the Run any more except if I am in the area with some time to kill. However, I can imagine a situation where someone like myself who lives a couple of hours away gets there only to find out there are no permits available because a flock of sports staying at Allenberry used them all...

I'll post the reply I get from the PFBC...

 

[ROVERT]

This is disappointing. I'm concerned that this will have the same effect on my ability to fish it that outright posting would. My fishing there is largely unplanned. If I'm able to wrap up my work day early enough, I'll run there for the evening. I can foresee people grabbing up the permits regardless of whether or not they will make it there to fish.

Allenbury owns the land and has the right to do this. It has definitely gotten crowded and etiquette has been lacking. I'm not sure this is the best solution, though.

 

[Bamboozle]

I have no clue how it will work, but I can imagine an arbitrary number of permits will be available based on some person's opinion of what that number should be for a quality fishing experience...

From that number, a certain number of permits will HAVE to be reserved for guests for obvious reasons. Well, according to AI, the resort has 68 available rooms... 😳

While it will never happen, THEORETICALLY you could have a situation where the place is fully booked with people who want to fish the property or worse yet, COUPLES with children that want to fish the property...

How is that going to be managed, with beats & time slots???

Which raises the question, will unused guest permits be available and if so, how are they obtained; in person, via the Internet and WHEN would they be available keeping in mind late check-ins of sports who MAY want to fish the evening hatch...

More importantly, will there be a business opportunity to scalp unused permits in the Iron Furnace parking lot?? 😉

Again, I understand the why and hate to be a total pessimist, but I think this is the effective end of public fishing; or at minimum opportunistic public fishing at Section 03 of the Yellow Breeches... 😢

 

[Ladove]

Although Allenberry isn’t my favorite section of the Breeches and they have the power to do as they please since they are the landowners, I still don’t like to see it. It’s an EXTREMELY short section of special regs that sees way too much pressure in my mind. I think more of the Breeches should be special regs to help the wild fish, or at least see a no kill and prevent the stocking of browns, but we all know that’s a fever dream and will never happen.

Additionally, how is Allenberry planning on enforcing this. I can tell you I wouldn’t be getting a permit for mediocre water.

 

[Bamboozle]

IF the PFBC does the right thing and stops stocking Section 03 and eliminates the Special Regulation, I honestly can't see them re-designating an existing section as C&R as the "Breeches" is a very popular stream.

However, they could re-section the stream and create a C&R section in a part of the stream with low harvest rates and/or low angler usage, if they exist.

However, a Special Regulation may result in more pressure on those areas AND with just about the entire stream running through private property, it could happen all over again for different reasons...

 

[mt_flyfisher]

I haven’t fished there for years, but just the thought of seeing “Fishing Permit Required” signs posted along the stream …😢

 

[Bamboozle]

I haven’t fished there for years, but just the thought of seeing “Fishing Permit Required” signs posted along the stream …😢

Same here...

I remember how excited I was to fish there back when I made my first pilgrimage to fish the Cumberland Valley Limestoners as a punk fly fisherman and more recent visits when the PA Fly Fishing Museum had their events at Allenberry...

 

[Ladove]

IF the PFBC does the right thing and stops stocking Section 03 and eliminates the Special Regulation, I honestly can't see them re-designating an existing section as C&R as the "Breeches" is a very popular stream.

However, they could re-section the stream and create a C&R section in a part of the stream with low harvest rates and or low angler usage if they exist.

However, a Special Regulation may result in more pressure on those areas AND with just about the entire stream running through private property, it could happen all over again for different reasons...

As I said, a zero kill/no stocking of brown trout throughout the entirety would appease all parties aside from the people who want to eat browns. Personally I think the short (such as Allenberry) C&R/special regs sections do little for conservation because of the amount of pressure they see vs the amount of water because people are drawn to them. Aside from a handful of outliers.

 

[joebamboo]

 

[Bamboozle]

That answers the online availability question...

I wonder if they have a plan in place to keep an entity like TCO from gobbling up available permits so they can guide clients in that section??

FWIW - I believe the "This program is designed to reduce crowding, protect the Yellow Breeches and improve the angling experience." part about as much as I believe Wegman's won't give me a free shopping bag because they are trying to protect the environment..

But that's me...

 

[JG63]

Signs posted along the Allenberry owned property:

"Beginning April 4, 2026, fishing from Allenberry property will require a free daily permit'

Permits will be limited each day and available online.

This program is designed to reduce crowding, protect the Yellow Breeches and improve the angling experience"

FWIW, Allenberry owns both sides of the creek from the Arch Stone Bridge to just below the pavillion at Allenberry! Not a good move IMO!

I called this a couple years ago when the new order took over Allenberry - Tom Baltz said I was wrong - then the “course improvements” started - now we see this - on plus side, the fishing sucks since the “improvements” were made (unless there’s a fresh stocking) - one of the reasons I got out of the industry and stopped guiding was the exploitation of the resource to sustain reputations and bank accounts - a lot of famous anglers have propped up the Breeches, Letort, Falling Spring, Big Spring, and even Mountain Creek over the last 45 years, I was once on that bandwagon too - but I’m more for habitat management and conservation of the resource behind the scenes (the way my first 10 years on the water were) - I’m not slamming the folks who make their living selling an experience - but I think the industry has suffered from inflated egos and squeezing out the small operators in favor of smashing that like button - I’ll teach anyone to fish who wants to learn based on my 50+ years experience on CV area waters without telling them which of my customized flies to buy to REALLY catch fish … nobody needs to write a book anymore I guess … grooming the stream and taking advantage of taxpayer funded programs to enrich your stretch for private gains is the same as Beaver sending his “guides” to excite the “wild” fish with pellets just before the $10k dues paying club member fishes that beat … y’all can have it if that’s important to you - there are plenty of wild and holdover fish in ignored places - as I used to say in my YouTube videos, “see you on the stream”

 

[TimMurphy]

Dear Board,

Based on my last visit to the Yellow Breeches which occurred last May during the monsoon season I think an even bigger reason to eliminate the Special Regulations stretch is the preponderance of tubers, kayakers, and canoeists that frequent the stretch when there is sufficient water for floating.

At the time I visited on a Saturday the water was a tad high, but not badly colored and it was in solid fishing condition by my standards. Anything from deep nymphing to dry fly fishing would have been possible. The problem was you couldn't get a cast in the water without hitting some manner of watercraft.

I'm not here to start a debate about who gets to use what and when, but I'd have no problem stopping the stocking and shutting down the special regs. The owner of Allenberry really wants to develop residential housing on the property and locally money always gets its way in Cumberland County.

Regards,

Tim Murphy 🙂

 

[JG63]

View attachment 1641249472

🤮🤮

 

[JG63]

That answers the online availability question...

I wonder if they have a plan in place to keep an entity like TCO from gobbling up available permits so they can guide clients in that section??

FWIW - I believe the "This program is designed to reduce crowding, protect the Yellow Breeches and improve the angling experience." part about as much as I believe Wegman's won't give me a free shopping bag because they are trying to protect the environment..

But that's me...

You answered your own question Bam! Precision will get their share too 🤪 CVTU also has a stake in that claim - I tore up my TU card, PHW affiliation and Semperfli pro status when I moved out of that rat race

 

[wildtrout2]

View attachment 1641249472

This sign is a perfect example of why I go out of my way to fish tough to access unstocked wild trout streams. If I want company, I'll go to church or an AA meeting. 😉

 

[Bamboozle]

I called this a couple years ago when the new order took over Allenberry - Tom Baltz said I was wrong - then the “course improvements” started - now we see this...

Refresh my memory, who paid for the improvements, just in case I'm not mad enough...

This sign is a perfect example of why I go out of my way to fish tough to access unstocked wild trout streams. If I want company, I'll go to church or an AA meeting. 😉

Apples to kumquats...

It not so much about being alone or the difference between the wild or stocked experience, it's about a private entity restricting access to fish provided for by our license dollars.

It would be no different than a private property owner on one of the creeks you like accepting PFBC monies for access or improvements and then posting that property.

The only difference is less people would be pi$$ed off... 😉

 

[JG63]

Refresh my memory, who paid for the improvements, just in case I'm not mad enough...



Apples to kumquats...

It not so much about being alone or the difference between the wild or stocked experience, it's about a private entity restricting access to fish provided for by our license dollars.

It would be no different than a private property owner on one of the creeks you like accepting PFBC monies for access or improvements and then posting that property.

The only difference is less people would be pi$$ed off... 😉

Exactly! I’m pretty sure CVTU got some grant money from Uncle Sam and of course the private investors for the Allenberry housing development just downstream - there were plans for a golf course too -