When you aren't wading or standing on the bank of a pond, do you have a watercraft of choice?

poopdeck said:
The law is quoted in my post. Not for nothing but the risk isn’t worth it especially when it’s not much more trouble to transport it legally. I’ve seen overhanging loads kill people. No risk is worth that for the sake of transporting a kayak. Life is far easier if you follow the rules.
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I’m not saying you wrong, or right. it’s not clear if the tailgate is considered the bed or the body. The rear of the truck being the tailgate up are your words. The tailgate makes all the difference. Now that I’ve thought about it most kayak fishing kayaks fall between 12’-14’. The most popular being a Hobie PA14. That would put anyone with a standard bed past the legal limit. And even with a long bed a PA14 with any form of motor mount or power pole would put it past that legal limit. This means a large % of kayak anglers are breaking the rule even with a bed extender. There will be multiple kayak tournaments on the Susquehanna including the bass master which draws over 200 anglers. A large number of them will be breaking this rule. DOT could have a day at the launch.

At the moment I’m basically taking legal advice from a stranger and AI, neither which I can take as fact.

Even if my kayak in the bed of my truck is illegal. So be it. I am sorry.
 
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Andrwhite610 said:
I’m not saying you wrong, or right. it’s not clear if the tailgate is considered the bed or the body. The rear of the truck being the tailgate up are your words. The tailgate makes all the difference. Now that I’ve thought about it most kayak fishing kayaks fall between 12’-14’. The most popular being a Hobie PA14. That would put anyone with a standard bed past the legal limit. And even with a long bed a PA14 with any form of motor mount or power pole would put it past that legal limit. This means a large % of kayak anglers are breaking the rule even with a bed extender. There will be multiple kayak tournaments on the Susquehanna including the bass master which draws over 200 anglers. A large number of them will be breaking this rule. DOT could have a day at the launch.

At the moment I’m basically taking legal advice from a stranger and AI, neither which I can take as fact.

Even if my kayak in the bed of my truck is illegal. So be it. I am sorry.
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A stranger with over 40 years of law enforcement experience who, unlike AI, can think with logic, common sense, and comprehension. Not my words, the words of The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) which is used for vehicle enforcement actions by PA and most other states,

“Overall vehicle length should be determined by measuring the maximum longitudinal distance between the foremost point on the front bumper face bar and the rearmost point on the rear bumper face bar. In the context of the Part 581 Bumper Standard (49 CFR 581).”

Also the words of Toyota who measure their trucks overall length bumper to bumper. The width, in case anybody is wondering, is measured with the doors closed. Why would there be a different standard for length.

The law makes it clear where the back of a vehicle is. Common sense also tells us where the back of the vehicle is by the location of brake lights, taillights, and running lights.

This is really a no-brainer. If others are doing this then yes they are illegal and they should be educated on the law. It’s not a DOT field day it’s an any police officer in the state field day. A lack of proactive criminal law enforcement does not alleviate ones responsibility for the safety of those around us. Criminal law enforcement may only happen post accident. Civil enforcement, post accident, can cost you your house, everything you have or will ever work for, hefty legal bills and quite possibly your freedom. Let’s also not forget the biggest concern and that is you may INJURE yourself or somebody else.

Myself, I would rather lift a kayak onto a rack or trailer it over taking that kind of risk. Sorry, but I prefer educating those around me. This is why I say life is easier, cheaper and safer if you follow the rules.

Tim, sorry for the derailment but I really think this was important.
 
poopdeck said:
A stranger with over 40 years of law enforcement experience who, unlike AI, can think with logic, common sense, and comprehension. Not my words, the words of The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) which is used for vehicle enforcement actions by PA and most other states,

“Overall vehicle length should be determined by measuring the maximum longitudinal distance between the foremost point on the front bumper face bar and the rearmost point on the rear bumper face bar. In the context of the Part 581 Bumper Standard (49 CFR 581).”

Also the words of Toyota who measure their trucks overall length bumper to bumper. The width, in case anybody is wondering, is measured with the doors closed. Why would there be a different standard for length.

The law makes it clear where the back of a vehicle is. Common sense also tells us where the back of the vehicle is by the location of brake lights, taillights, and running lights.

This is really a no-brainer. If others are doing this then yes they are illegal and they should be educated on the law. It’s not a DOT field day it’s an any police officer in the state field day. A lack of proactive criminal law enforcement does not alleviate ones responsibility for the safety of those around us. Criminal law enforcement may only happen post accident. Civil enforcement, post accident, can cost you your house, everything you have or will ever work for, hefty legal bills and quite possibly your freedom. Let’s also not forget the biggest concern and that is you may INJURE yourself or somebody else.

Myself, I would rather lift a kayak onto a rack or trailer it over taking that kind of risk. Sorry, but I prefer educating those around me. This is why I say life is easier, cheaper and safer if you follow the rules.

Tim, sorry for the derailment but I really think this was important.
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If you have 40+ years of law enforcement experience then I’m sure you’re absolutely right. I appreciate you taking the time to educate. What I do with this information will be a personal choice. 😁
 
Everyone,

I don't mind that the discussion went sideways. I think it is important that people are aware of the potential consequences of flat hauling boats in pick up beds. If it spares someone an accident or a ticket it was well worth the derailment.

I still want to get a one-boat solution though!

Regards,

Tim Murphy 🙂
 
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