Tippet and Balance with Hook Size

[steve98]

When I bought my first leader kit (Orvis) back in the mid 80's.
The instructions and leader formulas recommended certain hook size range in relation to tippett size.
Do any of you leader tyers do this. Just wondering, what if stream conditions call for 5x 6x tippet, but the fly
to use is a size 10 or 12. According to the Orvis chart that tippet to fly size ratio is not recommended.
Thoughts.

TY Steve 98

 

[littlelimbs]

Short answer: Yes, I match fly size to tippet as do many others.

Longer answer:

I think understanding why the Orvis chart does not recommend certain tippet to hook/fly size is enlightening. The leader, including your tippet, needs to be able to carry the energy to the fly otherwise you won't be able to properly cast it. I think there are three cases to consider:
1. Fly too light for tippet
2. Fly appropriate size for tippet
3. Fly too heavy for tippet

What you want to aim for is #2, fly size & weight matching the tippet you are using. Both other cases will prevent you from properly presenting a fly, impact your casting accuracy, and make it harder to catch fish. Have you ever had a leader collapse into a pile near the tip of your fly line, flies slapping the water, or seem to be unable to accurately cast? Those are all common effects of using inappropriately sized tippet. I think if you think the stream requires 5x/6x, then you should be throwing flies that match the 5x/6x tippet. Ignoring physics and trying to throw a size 10 on 6x is going to make for a bad time on the water.

A very simple formula is to take fly size and divide by 3 or 4 to get appropriate tippet sizes. Divide by 4 if fly is on the lighter side and divide by 3 if fly is on heavier side.

Here is a great video covering this topic: Mad River Outfitters - The Leader

 

[pcray1231]

Divide hook size by 4 and add 1.

You end up with:
Size 8 = 3x
Size 12 = 4x
Size 16 = 5x
Size 20 = 6x
Size 24 = 7x

For the tweener sizes, you can go either way depending on situation. I pretty much use it. I've nothing against sizing up or down 1 size as the situation demands. But you get the same effect by lengthening or shortening the tippet, and I do that more than I switch sizes. 99% of my fishing is with 4x or 5x on the business end, sometimes I'll cut back to the 3x when using streamers. I'll do 6x on tricos and smaller BWO's and midges.

One thing littlellimbs said made me scratch my head a little. "If you think the stream requires 5x/6x". Never in my history of fly fishing have I said the stream requires a certain tippet size, and never have I heard anyone really say that either. You pick the fly first. Then, based on that, the tippet size and length to get the presentation you need. Remember, fish aren't often line shy, they are drag shy. The size and length of tippet is about balancing the needs to cast accurately and get a good drift.

BIG CRITTERS change the game completely. Salmon/Steelhead/saltwater. You need heavier tippets to fight them. This is where you might use a size 16 fly on 2x or 3x. But how do you get good presentation then? My answer is go longer...

 

[littlelimbs]

One thing littlellimbs said made me scratch my head a little. "If you think the stream requires 5x/6x". Never in my history of fly fishing have I said the stream requires a certain tippet size, and never have I heard anyone really say that either. You pick the fly first. Then, based on that, the tippet size and length to get the presentation you need. Remember, fish aren't often line shy, they are drag shy. The size and length of tippet is about balancing the needs to cast accurately and get a good drift.

I agree with you - the fly comes first then you determine the line size to use that is appropriate for the fly. I was just responding to his comment of

what if stream conditions call for 5x 6x tippet, but the fly to use is a size 10 or 12.

I think the sentiment or general idea behind this comment is most likely that they might be fishing very quiet/slow moving streams might have spooky or line shy fish, in which case the fly fisher might be wanting to downsize tippet to adjust to these conditions/fish. I don't think this is advisable without also downsizing the flies. Hope that helps clarify.

 

[pcray1231]

Agreed.

Remember, fish aren't generally line shy. They are drag shy. I think Humphreys or Harvey did an experiment where they tied ridiculously thick line to real bugs over shy fish. Some were connected to rods and some just had 4 or 5 inches of line. Fish hit the ones on short lines with reckless abandon.

If the fish are really shy, maybe go down 1 size, it helps with drag. But most of it should be accomplished by lengthening the tippet. And stay away from stiff tippets, which includes most fluoro's!