The Future in PA is Grim!

[TimMurphy]

The Susquehanna is probably different than a Joe Schmo trout stream, and I assume you only owned property on the NY side and I don't know the deal there.

So allow me to ask you a hypothetical question...

In the similar situation on smaller water that you own in PA and you own BOTH sides of the "crick..."

Because of access zealots the government steps in, the streambed running through your property becomes public and you can longer grant, deny or restrict access.

Folks come when they please, you have no control on how many; they park wherever they want on/off, or along your property, yell back & forth to each other how many fish they caught, smoke cigars (which I can't smoke in public parks) maybe litter or cause damage; your only recourse is to call the cops...

And the tackle box is missing. 😉

How would that work out for you???

I'm not trying to be a smack a$$, but my point in asking the question (twice) is, it is probably most often folks who DON'T own property with a stream running through it that speak the loudest in support of being allowed to fish on mine or similar property.

To me that's analogous to me, a person with no kids telling folks WITH kids what to do with the schools or allowing me unfettered access to the schools because they are public and I pay taxes (and a LOT of taxes) to keep them open.

Dear Bamboozle,

With absolutely no offense intended, in my mind you are yelling at clouds.

I was raised to be a decent, respectful, and honest person. While I recognize that not everyone is like me, I absolutely believe that most people are until they prove otherwise.

No one in Pennsylvania owns any wild fish or wild creature that lives in moving water or walks the land. That's indisputable.

I am in no position to own stream frontage again, but should that somehow miraculously change I would return to the position I expressed above. People have to demonstrate to me that they are untrustworthy. Until that happens, they get the benefit of doubt from me.

Regards,

Tim Murphy 🙂

 

[Bamboozle]

Dear Bamboozle,

With absolutely no offense intended, in my mind you are yelling at clouds.

I was raised to be a decent, respectful, and honest person. While I recognize that not everyone is like me, I absolutely believe that most people are until they prove otherwise.

No one in Pennsylvania owns any wild fish or wild creature that lives in moving water or walks the land. That's indisputable.

I am in no position to own stream frontage again, but should that somehow miraculously change I would return to the position I expressed above. People have to demonstrate to me that they are untrustworthy. Until that happens, they get the benefit of doubt from me.

Regards,

Tim Murphy 🙂

But you still haven't expressed how you would feel if all of a sudden...

You had NO control over a situation you didn't buy into.

Once again...

 

[TimMurphy]

But you still haven't expressed how you would feel if all of a sudden...

You had NO control over a situation you didn't buy into.

Once again...

Dear Bamboozle,

I tried to be polite, but Marone, you simply can't accept an answer that counters yours and simply quit.

I wouldn't give a crap! Just stop for chrissakes, you haven't made your point but yet you persist.

Is that obvious enough for you now?

Regards,

Tim Murphy 🙂

 

[riverwhy]

But you still haven't expressed how you would feel if all of a sudden...

You had NO control over a situation you didn't buy into.

Once again...

Happens all the time. pond built upstream of your Brookie crick. Development runoff onto your property. Lights and hum from a data center. I will take fellow sportsman allowed on a narrow corridor of my property any day.

 

[FisherOfMen]

 

[riverwhy]

View attachment 1641254520

Is that the owner of the house or the invading fisherman celebrating his limit?

 

[PennKev]

But you still haven't expressed how you would feel if all of a sudden...

You had NO control over a situation you didn't buy into.

Once again...

I can't speak for Tim, but I didn't "buy into" a life where I was shut out from the natural world I was born into.

 

[TimMurphy]

I can't speak for Tim, but I didn't "buy into" a life where I was shut out from the natural world I was born into.

Dear PennKev,

I approve of you speaking for me because we are clearly on the same page. I'll find a way to deal with things, and I suspect you would do the same.

That doesn't mean we approve of being shut out though.

Regards,

Tim Murphy 🙂

 

[Oregon_OwlII]

NY DEC has a phenomenal system too. Lots of easements to both sides of water, parking spots and trials marked down to the water and maps of everything too

They had the foresight to do this a very long time ago.

 

[FisherOfMen]

They had the foresight to do this a very long time ago.

I had to look this up.

"DEC has been working with private landowners to create public access opportunities to these prime fishing waters since 1935. To date, more than 1,300 miles of PFR easements have been purchased on more than 400 streams across the state."

Impressive

 

[troutbert]

Just wonder how many of the advocates of the State "taking streams & buffer zones and making them public" own or live on property with a stream or a lake that is fed by a stream??

Only once have I ever seen anyone advocate the state taking buffer zones, and that once was in this thread. So it's just one person who advocated that.

Navigable rivers law applies only to the river channel. The actual language is "mean high water mark" and that translates to top of bank. The law does not give the public any rights beyond that, so no rights to the floodplains.

Stream access laws in Wisconsin and Montana also apply to the stream channel (top of bank to top of bank) and do not provide rights of access to the floodplains.

 

[RLeep2]

What New York DEC has done with easements, etc. is admirable and perhaps a good model for what PA could have/should have done the better past of a century ago as NYS did.

I think though it is worth bearing in mind that the nexus (or at least the most famous/popular) of New York's stream fishery for trout is in relative close proximity to the Eastern Megablob. This does not diminish their foresight, but it may partially explain why they were out on front with this so long ago. Sometimes, necessity as the mother of invention can be indistinguishable from predictive wisdom and foresight.