Act 56 of 2020 allowed the PAFBC to set their license prices. I stand corrected!
Study: PGC/PFBC will run out of funds by 2034
- Thread starter The Rodfather
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Rep. Anita Kulik (D-45) is seeking legislative support to direct the Legislative Budget and Finance Committee to examine shared administrative, operational, and law enforcement services between the Pennsylvania Fish and Boat Commission (PFBC) and the Pennsylvania Game Commission (PGC).
Her proposal comes on the heels of a study by the Wildlife Management Institute which identified potential cost savings through greater coordination between the commissions. This comes on the heels of both commissions announcing the end of their respective deputy warden programs, eliminating more than 100 positions.
local21news.com
Rep. Anita Kulik (D-45) is seeking legislative support to direct the Legislative Budget and Finance Committee to examine shared administrative, operational, and law enforcement services between the Pennsylvania Fish and Boat Commission (PFBC) and the Pennsylvania Game Commission (PGC).
Her proposal comes on the heels of a study by the Wildlife Management Institute which identified potential cost savings through greater coordination between the commissions. This comes on the heels of both commissions announcing the end of their respective deputy warden programs, eliminating more than 100 positions.
Lawmaker wants to explore blending operations for some PA game, fish and boat services
A Pennsylvania lawmaker has expressed interest in probing whether some of the state's outdoor commissions could save money by blending some of their services.
local21news.com
This is the truth.
The above information is incorrect. If you launch a float-tube at a PFBC launch, it needs a permit or sticker on it. Maybe DCNR launches don't care, but I assure you the PFBC can and will ticket you for it.
Bamboozle
Well-known member
Please direct me where this requirement appears in the regulations or PA Code with language that includes float tubes.
I have never seen it or heard of it despite numerous inquiries.to the the PFBC over the years and if you LOOK, you won't find float tubes mentioned anywhere you see launch permits mentioned.
In the meantime I emailed PFBC Boating Registration & my Regional Law Enforcement office for further clarification.
Last edited:
tomgamber
Well-known member
I have been challenged at a State park. DCNR. And that was before they changed the rules to include float tubes as they have now done.
tomgamber
Well-known member
3. The Distinction (Boats vs. Swim Aids)
Because a float tube is treated by the law as an angling device rather than a standard hull vessel (like a kayak or canoe), the strict letter of the text under 58 Pa. Code § 53.19 does not explicitly detail the words "launch permit."
However, enforcement and permit mandates apply to float tubes through two connected rules:
The Inflatable Rule: The PFBC explicitly dictates that "Inflatable boats may carry their numbers and validation decal or launch permit lashed to each side of the bow". [1]
The Access Rule: It is unlawful to launch or retrieve "swimming aids" or "casual inner tubes" at PFBC access areas. Because a float tube is legally allowed only because you are an actively fishing angler, you are operating as an unpowered watercraft user at that access point, subjecting you to the standard access area regulations
In practice, PFBC Waterways Conservation Officers (WCOs) enforce the permit rule for float tubes at state-controlled ramps and docks to ensure everyone utilizing the state-maintained access facilities contributes to their upkeep.
So basically, you can get one and fish or be told you can;t fish and have to go home or be fined or possibly arrested.
Because a float tube is treated by the law as an angling device rather than a standard hull vessel (like a kayak or canoe), the strict letter of the text under 58 Pa. Code § 53.19 does not explicitly detail the words "launch permit."
However, enforcement and permit mandates apply to float tubes through two connected rules:
The Inflatable Rule: The PFBC explicitly dictates that "Inflatable boats may carry their numbers and validation decal or launch permit lashed to each side of the bow". [1]
The Access Rule: It is unlawful to launch or retrieve "swimming aids" or "casual inner tubes" at PFBC access areas. Because a float tube is legally allowed only because you are an actively fishing angler, you are operating as an unpowered watercraft user at that access point, subjecting you to the standard access area regulations
In practice, PFBC Waterways Conservation Officers (WCOs) enforce the permit rule for float tubes at state-controlled ramps and docks to ensure everyone utilizing the state-maintained access facilities contributes to their upkeep.
So basically, you can get one and fish or be told you can;t fish and have to go home or be fined or possibly arrested.
Later, I will look and see if I can find the regulations that would pertain to float tubes. I have seen the PFBC ticketing people with inner-tubes at boat launches on the Juniata. And, I must admit, when you are actually trying to launch a boat as a paying customer, it can be mighty frustrating to have a whole bunch of drunk and drinking floaters clogging up the ramp. It's happened to me more than once.
TimMurphy
Well-known member
- Joined
- Sep 9, 2006
- Messages
- 4,526
Dear Board,
The rules are as ambiguous as they can be but from the DCNR home page on fishing is the following:
A quality U-shaped, V-shaped, or round float tube is constructed of high quality, durable materials with one or more inflatable bladders inside a sewn cover.
Float tubes may only be propelled by non-mechanical, non-motorized devices like oars. A U.S. Coast Guard approved personal flotation device must be worn at all times. No launch permit is required.
A state park officer can terminate float tube use if the device does not conform with material quality requirements, is being used in an unsafe manner, or is used during unsafe conditions.
The below is from the PFBC page:
Unpowered boats like kayaks, canoes, and stand-up paddleboards (SUPs), as well as rowboats and sailboats (without motors) must have a boat registration, PFBC launch permit, or a DCNR State Parks launch permit to use PFBC lakes and access areas or Pennsylvania State Parks and Forests access areas. An unpowered boat may have either a registration or a launch permit but is not required to have both.
Use the chart below to consider whether a registration or a launch permit is right for you.
As you can see it's clear as mud. From the DCNR page it states that float tubes may be used w/o launch permits but only when used away from launch sites or swimming areas. I read that as if you decide to go into Lake Holman at Little Buffalo State Park from either of the boat launch areas you must have a permit. Combine that with the fact that while float tubes are not specifically mentioned in the rules for unpowered boats on the PFBC page you must have a launch permit or registration to use the launch sites.
They could certainly be more clear and forceful in their definitions but I figure for $ 11.00 a year it's worth the hassle to get a launch permit. I've tried in the past to use Memorial Lake w/o a launch permit in my float tube and wound up having to buy a permit on the water when the park ranger was making their rounds.
I just bought an unlimited supply of large vinyl name tag holders and 2 sets of PFBC launch permits that I keep inside the holders. I just use a piece of old fly line to lash the permits to "D" rings on my tubes or my pontoon boat when used. I have more than one float tube and more than one pontoon, but I just swap the permits around since unlike a boat registration they are not serial number controlled.
Regards,
Tim Murphy 🙂
The rules are as ambiguous as they can be but from the DCNR home page on fishing is the following:
Fishing with a Float Tube in State Parks
Float tubes, also known as a belly boats or kick boats, continue to rise in popularity. Quality float tubes are permitted while fishing in state park lakes and still waters, away from designated swimming and boat launching areas.A quality U-shaped, V-shaped, or round float tube is constructed of high quality, durable materials with one or more inflatable bladders inside a sewn cover.
Float tubes may only be propelled by non-mechanical, non-motorized devices like oars. A U.S. Coast Guard approved personal flotation device must be worn at all times. No launch permit is required.
A state park officer can terminate float tube use if the device does not conform with material quality requirements, is being used in an unsafe manner, or is used during unsafe conditions.
The below is from the PFBC page:
Unpowered boats like kayaks, canoes, and stand-up paddleboards (SUPs), as well as rowboats and sailboats (without motors) must have a boat registration, PFBC launch permit, or a DCNR State Parks launch permit to use PFBC lakes and access areas or Pennsylvania State Parks and Forests access areas. An unpowered boat may have either a registration or a launch permit but is not required to have both.
Use the chart below to consider whether a registration or a launch permit is right for you.
Register Your Unpowered Boat Next Year
For These Benefits:
| Benefits | Unpowered Boat Registration (2 Years) | Launch "Use" Permit (1-Year or 2-Year Options) |
|---|---|---|
| Cost | $22.00 | $22.00 |
| Renewal Reminders Sent | YES | NO |
| Recognized by Other States | YES | NO |
| Increases Federal Funding for Pennsylvania Boating Programs* | YES | NO |
| Contact Information for Boat Stored in the Commission's Database | YES | NO |
As you can see it's clear as mud. From the DCNR page it states that float tubes may be used w/o launch permits but only when used away from launch sites or swimming areas. I read that as if you decide to go into Lake Holman at Little Buffalo State Park from either of the boat launch areas you must have a permit. Combine that with the fact that while float tubes are not specifically mentioned in the rules for unpowered boats on the PFBC page you must have a launch permit or registration to use the launch sites.
They could certainly be more clear and forceful in their definitions but I figure for $ 11.00 a year it's worth the hassle to get a launch permit. I've tried in the past to use Memorial Lake w/o a launch permit in my float tube and wound up having to buy a permit on the water when the park ranger was making their rounds.
I just bought an unlimited supply of large vinyl name tag holders and 2 sets of PFBC launch permits that I keep inside the holders. I just use a piece of old fly line to lash the permits to "D" rings on my tubes or my pontoon boat when used. I have more than one float tube and more than one pontoon, but I just swap the permits around since unlike a boat registration they are not serial number controlled.
Regards,
Tim Murphy 🙂
Bamboozle
Well-known member
I'm still waiting to see something OFFICIAL in writing that specifically addresses float tubes because the ambiguity is frustrating and I may need it when I get fined... 😎
FWIW - I have floated a TON of PFBC & DCNR lakes, including Memorial Lake, Locust Lake, Tuscarora Lake, Pinchot Lake, Scott Run, Lake Minsi, Hidden Lake, Hopewell Lake, Lyman Run Lake, Kaercher Creek Lake and Laurel Lake to name a few.
At many or most of those places I've chatted with DCNR, Rangers, WCO's and even PGC officers and never once was asked to see anything but a license and my PFD which doesn't mean I'm right.
No disrespect intended, but I don't necessarily believe everything I hear from front line PFBC folks because twice in regards to float tubes, I had to politely correct a LEO who thought they were NOT permitted on one PFBC lake I was fishing and another LEO at a different lake who insisted I could have an electric motor on my float tube.
As a result of these encounters, I keep a copy of the PUBLISHED rules & definitions on my float tube.
HOWEVER...
I received this PROMPT reply from Boat Registration after I emailed them today (still waiting for a reply from Law Enforcement):
For now. 😉
Not because I want to be right and prove a point, I just want to be sure I am following the law & regulations. MORE importantly, it seems REALLY F'n DUMB that float tubes aren't specified anywhere where lauch permits are mentioned.
In the meantime, I figure by NEVER getting a launch permit, I've saved some $$ in the 20+ years I've owned a float tube. I also figure that's more than enough cash to buy several cases of beer and some grub.
Rather than do the right thing and make a donation to the PFBC, if I ever bump into Tim or Josh as a conciliatory gesture...
The beer & lunch is on me. 🙂
FWIW - I have floated a TON of PFBC & DCNR lakes, including Memorial Lake, Locust Lake, Tuscarora Lake, Pinchot Lake, Scott Run, Lake Minsi, Hidden Lake, Hopewell Lake, Lyman Run Lake, Kaercher Creek Lake and Laurel Lake to name a few.
At many or most of those places I've chatted with DCNR, Rangers, WCO's and even PGC officers and never once was asked to see anything but a license and my PFD which doesn't mean I'm right.
No disrespect intended, but I don't necessarily believe everything I hear from front line PFBC folks because twice in regards to float tubes, I had to politely correct a LEO who thought they were NOT permitted on one PFBC lake I was fishing and another LEO at a different lake who insisted I could have an electric motor on my float tube.
As a result of these encounters, I keep a copy of the PUBLISHED rules & definitions on my float tube.
HOWEVER...
I received this PROMPT reply from Boat Registration after I emailed them today (still waiting for a reply from Law Enforcement):
"Yes, launch permit required to use PFBC/DCNR property."
So until further research or responses prove otherwise, I will stand corrected and say I was wrong...For now. 😉
Not because I want to be right and prove a point, I just want to be sure I am following the law & regulations. MORE importantly, it seems REALLY F'n DUMB that float tubes aren't specified anywhere where lauch permits are mentioned.
In the meantime, I figure by NEVER getting a launch permit, I've saved some $$ in the 20+ years I've owned a float tube. I also figure that's more than enough cash to buy several cases of beer and some grub.
Rather than do the right thing and make a donation to the PFBC, if I ever bump into Tim or Josh as a conciliatory gesture...
The beer & lunch is on me. 🙂
