lycoflyfisher
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Be careful what you wish for. Many states envy the fact that PA wildlife and fisheries management is not directed by state general funds and political whims.
Study: PGC/PFBC will run out of funds by 2034
- Thread starter The Rodfather
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Agree, but the model we have is something to be admired when we are still cash positive. That doesn't seem to be a sustainable model down the road.
I'm not advocating for a general fund scenario. A blended funding of Missouri like sales tax, licenses fees, federal and state grants is one way of piecing it together. There are several ways in other states, some better than others.
Currently PFBC is ~ 65% licenses fees, 25% federal and state grants and then some other stuff.
TimMurphy
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Dear lycofisher,
That's been my argument all along. Our governance consists of two intractable opposite sides that are automatically diametrically opposed to anything the other side offers no matter what is on the table. It's comical in real life but it won't be funny for fish nor game.
I'd like to see some or even all of the following implemented:
----- Close the majority of the trout hatcheries, no more stocked trout period. Do away with the Opening Day circus. If we lose fishing opportunities because of the cessation of stocking it is what it is. Keep a hatchery or two around that are in the best possible condition to raise fingerlings for stocking or providing fingerlings to co-op nurseries. In the case of fish going to co-ops, the fish must be released in publicly accessible waters. Keep a warm-water hatchery operational so that fish stock can be added to repaired lakes and ponds.
----- Raise the license fee to $ 100.00 at a minimum but do away with all the stamps and permits. Make the entry point high enough that only the serious apply. Let the active anglers fund the process, then perhaps they will be able to direct expenditures and resources.
----- Devote more money and effort to access and habitat enhancement in all waters but especially warm waters. We have numerous lakes and ponds on public property, including many State Parks, that are in dire need of dam repairs and/or habitat improvement. I don't care if they hold beef-n-beers or hoagie sales, but money is needed to maintain existing fisheries and to develop future fisheries.
----- Change the launch permit program so that the permit is usable with any unpowered boat someone has. If that means a yearly multi-boat permit has a higher price, I'm good with that. Why should a personal canoe and kayak and a float tube cost more to access PFBC properties yearly than a powerboat? It's $ 39.00 for two years with a powerboat of 16 ft or less, and $ 10.00 a pop for every unpowered boat.
I'll stop now, but I am serious about everything I offered above.
Regards,
Tim Murphy 🙂
Bamboozle
Well-known member
BINGO!! Use AI robots to replace hatchery workers and do other mundane tasks...
No pensions, no benefits; just replace the batteries every few years... problem solved. 😉
I agree wholeheartedly...
That p!$$a$$ increase over that amount of time while many smartphones now cost over $1000, the monthly average spent on phone plans is $140, the average on phone apps is $20 a year; $50 a month spent on streaming services and the average spent on tattoos is $2000...
And in the same amount of time, the cost of rods, reels, waders, fly lines, nippers, fishing pliers and other kit has crossed in the realm of ridiculous...
I think I figured it out, nobody can afford an increase in fishing or hinting licenses... 🙄
CRB
Well-known member
I have to agree...fishing and hunting licenses don't even equal the price of one pound of fish at the market, it is $8 cheaper than perch or walleye here in Erie.
Problem is the cost of a license to the fisher person has actually gone down if you compare today's salary to the past.
Even video games are like $100 + the live fees and other additional extra features. $20 6 years ago would get you 8 gallons of gas, today only 4.7gallons.
What about the average age of a license purchaser I believe that has increased over the past 50 years, too.
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Bamboozle
Well-known member
Is the desired outcome of the first two items on your wish list to make trout fishing so unappealing that it is only indulged upon well heeled sports willing to fork up $100 bucks annually for a license to fish hours away from their homes, lest they be resigned to nothing but 5" gemmie fishing...
What do folks from Philadelphia, Bucks, Delaware, Chester, Lancaster, Montgomery, Cumberland (yes Cumberland) and points west do for their trout fishing experience beside hop in the car and head north?
What nearby Class A or Natural Reproduction stream are supposed to absorb those anglers that aren't enamored with 5" gemmie fishing if that's all that's available without driving several hours?
And of those Class A or Natural Reproduction streams, how many are on private property and could additional pressure cause additional posting because...
We all know you can't make a silk purse from a sow's ear and we also all know it's those soon to be former truck chasers that cause all the problems...
Eliminating trout stocking entirely may decrease fiscal problems, but it MAY create more fishing related problems than it causes.
My opinion doesn't matter but for the time being, the the only stocking I would like to see go away is over Class A populations. It's a drop in the bucket and consistent with the goals of the folks at the PA Fish Commission who started the whole classification system with Operation Future.
It really bothers me that the Commission went back on the promise of Operation Future because I was around for the start of the program. It NEVER should have been allowed to happen by ANY commissioner, or allowed to continue by any Executive Director.
BTW - Traditional float tubes do NOT require a launch permit in PA...
If you have been paying for one, you should be asking for a refund and using that money to buy a powerboat. 😉
TimMurphy
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Dear Bamboozle,
If you access any water at a PFBC launch a permit is required. They are not required in State Parks if ingress or egress from the water is not done at an approved launch site. If you put in with anything at PFBC owned launch you must have a permit.
Trout stocking is a 100% waste of money. When licenses were $15.00, they stocked 8 million trout. Now they stock 3 million, many of them in the same worthless creeks. If you want to eat trout, buy them. At the supermarket, or at the expensive of a huge license increase, the choice is yours. Supporting the people who only want to freeze trout for later disposal is a losing proposition. It needs to end.
Regards,
Tim Murphy 🙂
If you access any water at a PFBC launch a permit is required. They are not required in State Parks if ingress or egress from the water is not done at an approved launch site. If you put in with anything at PFBC owned launch you must have a permit.
Trout stocking is a 100% waste of money. When licenses were $15.00, they stocked 8 million trout. Now they stock 3 million, many of them in the same worthless creeks. If you want to eat trout, buy them. At the supermarket, or at the expensive of a huge license increase, the choice is yours. Supporting the people who only want to freeze trout for later disposal is a losing proposition. It needs to end.
Regards,
Tim Murphy 🙂
Bamboozle
Well-known member
There's another downside to the increased average age, the FREE Senior License...
Unless the PFBC decides to do away with the Senior License; if your premise of an increased average of license buyers is correct (and I'm sure it is), the license revenue stream will be of a shorter duration than it would be with younger anglers.
Bamboozle
Well-known member
A float tube is NOT considered a boat, an inflatable boat, an un-powered watercraft or a vessel in PA because it's primary purpose is NOT transportation but providing a fishing platform.
I have used my float tube on DCNR lakes, PFBC Lakes, and any number of PA State Parks and was never challenged or asked for a launch permit despite have several conversations with law enforcement when checking me for other compliance requirements (fishing license, PFD, multiple air bladders).
I've also had conversations with PFBC & DCNR law enforcement in Harrisburg after a buddy was kicked off Laurel Lake in a float tube. The Ranger was wrong and reeducated by his superior and the problem was resolved, but NO mention of a launch permit was ever mentioned as a requirement for use.
As far as stocking goes, if you want it to end, the whole system should be shut down. Why should fingerlings be GIVEN AWAY to co-op hatcheries or used to artificially prop up a water way that can't support a self-sustaining population of trout.
Same goes for warmwater, a lake needing fish should get their fish from another lake, not a hatchery and "if we lose fishing opportunities because of the cessation of stocking it is what it is."
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nymphingmaniac
Well-known member
than
The concept that raising the price would select for "the serious angler". LOL. Being able to drop 100.00 does not equate to the level of seriousness, responsible behavior, skill or conservation mindedness. Perhaps some guides here could comment better than me about clients, but I've watched some of these serious fisherman in action.
thank you for sharing your ideas. All have plus and minuses, but on the whole I think your plan would reduce the number of new anglers into the sport. It may make the streams less busy during April/May, but would choke off growth of interest. Not only do you reduce people fishing, you reduce interest in conserving rivers and a pool of people who volunteer at river watching organizations in the future. The more people who use the river, the more people who will provide the motivation to keep them clean and viable. I think of some of some of the people who volunteer at LJRA or the moshannanon creek watershed association, some students, not having 100.00. I know it wasn't meant to come off this way, but it also sends a subtle message of elitism. Is it better to have an army of people with Tundras and 4-rod river quivers strapped to them on the stream?
The concept that raising the price would select for "the serious angler". LOL. Being able to drop 100.00 does not equate to the level of seriousness, responsible behavior, skill or conservation mindedness. Perhaps some guides here could comment better than me about clients, but I've watched some of these serious fisherman in action.
