Simms x Grateful Dead

[Bruno]

 

[Tom1980]

Collabs are hot these days. Personally I'm holding out for a Skwala x Slayer collab.

You only get Simms, they need the help.

 

[wildtrout2]

I think it's more about the Simms legacy being diminished than the Deads.

Maybe, but the Dead seems to be getting a brow beating with this thread.

Sure, we can say if you don't like it don't buy it, wipe our hands if it and walk away.

That would be the logical thing to do, since Simms is going to do whatever they want, regardless.

Or we can call it out for what it is. Simms is making inferior products lately...

Then don't buy Simms products. Simple. If they see enough drop in sales, maybe they'll take your advice, maybe not.

Keep smiling. 😊

 

[troutbert]

-Dead on the water is not only a poor choice of words for a struggling company, it's a pretty crappy slogan for waders.

How about Dead Simms? That has a certain ring to it.

This phony "cringe collaboration" diminishes the legacy of both the Grateful Dead and Simms.

 

[Tom1980]

How about Dead Simms? That has a certain ring to it.

This phony "cringe collaboration" diminishes the legacy of both the Grateful Dead and Simms.

💯

 

[dudemanspecial]

In a world where we have advertisements on sports uniforms, advertisements for gambling during sports broadcasts, Nirvana t-shirts being worn by teenagers that wouldn't know a Nirvana song if they heard one, politicians openly using their elected positions for monetary gain, people paying money to purchase clothing that is an advertisement for a company, and people getting tattoos of a corporation's logo on themselves, this collaboration is pretty well down on the meh scale to me.

Nothing is sacred at this point.

 

[Cznymph]

Maybe, but the Dead seems to be getting a brow beating with this thread.

That would be the logical thing to do, since Simms is going to do whatever they want, regardless.

Then don't buy Simms products. Simple. If they see enough drop in sales, maybe they'll take your advice, maybe not.

Keep smiling. 😊

I think it has more to due with the hypocrisy of those “dead heads” who 40 years ago would have thumbed their noses at corporate America.

 

[kbobb]

Really funny that the "hippies" have 1k to spend on waders.

Yeah the hippies changed religions and grew up to bow to the god of cash.

Them and young "trustafarian" hippie wanna - bes.

I think the Dead members have to sign agreements for the use of their images. Maybe this is just a giant cash grab by the couple remaining 'Dead members to provide more generational wealth for their families.

 

[Nocktavius]

Reminds me of an old joke:

Q: What did the one deadhead say to the other when they ran out of pot?

A: Wow man, this music sucks...



all jokes aside, GD music is pretty ideal for chilling with your buddies out in the woods and waters during a flyfishing trip- I can see how the appeal translates well to cross-branding. Just sucks a little that it had to be with the sh*tshow formerly known as Simms.

 

[caddisflyer]

I saw a guy getting his Simms Grateful Dead waders on while standing next to his Grateful Dead wrapped Cyber truck. He had those weird locking rod tubes on the roof, also with Grateful Dead decals.

 

[tomgamber]

Nearly every business owner in resort towns like Sun Valley are just old hippies.

 

[salvelinus]

WTF is with these people. I'm a boomer, and couldn't give a rat's furry behind about the GD. I don't even know one of their songs. Never got the attraction. Maybe I didn't do enough drugs?

 

[Bruno]

WTF is with these people. I'm a boomer, and couldn't give a rat's furry behind about the GD. I don't even know one of their songs. Never got the attraction. Maybe I didn't do enough drugs?

Don't give up

 

[PennKev]

I don't get what all the hoopla is about. If you think Simms merchandise, with or without the Dead marketing, is too expensive, just don't buy it. It's really that simple. What future is there in beating them up over their marketing practices? Buy Orvis or another brand, and let it go. Life's too short.

The Grateful Dead legacy isn't going anywhere, regardless of efforts to diminish it.

The hoopla is over a brand that once set the benchmark for quality deciding to go for a tacky gimmick rather than fixing their QC and design issues while still charging premium prices.

The choice to make Dead themed products is bad timing as much as anything else, and don't get me wrong I think there's more than one way to be critical of this.

Some have suggested switching brands if we don't like what Simms is doing. Ok, but I'm not convinced that there is a wader brand that compares to Simms of several years ago.

 

[TimMurphy]

The hoopla is over a brand that once set the benchmark for quality deciding to go for a tacky gimmick rather than fixing their QC and design issues while still charging premium prices.

The choice to make Dead themed products is bad timing as much as anything else, and don't get me wrong I think there's more than one way to be critical of this.

Some have suggested switching brands if we don't like what Simms is doing. Ok, but I'm not convinced that there is a wader brand that compares to Simms of several years ago.

Dear PennKev,

Your last line is literally the definition of today's American market. Simms is owned by Vista Outdoor. Read their holding list and let me know how the quality has fared across brands under their stewardship. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vista_Outdoor

Companies lure people in under the premise of quality and sell out to venture capitalists who proceed to squeeze everything out of the company before closing the doors. It happens on a daily or monthly basis in other industries, why would anyone think the VC's can't see an opportunity to plunder an outdoor equipment manufacturer, just for sport.

Regards,

Tim Murphy 🙂

 

[tomgamber]

Don't want to be accused of posting ransomwear so here's a screen grab. You figure it out.

 

[troutbert]

Dear PennKev,

Your last line is literally the definition of today's American market. Simms is owned by Vista Outdoor. Read their holding list and let me know how the quality has fared across brands under their stewardship. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vista_Outdoor

Companies lure people in under the premise of quality and sell out to venture capitalists who proceed to squeeze everything out of the company before closing the doors. It happens on a daily or monthly basis in other industries, why would anyone think the VC's can't see an opportunity to plunder an outdoor equipment manufacturer, just for sport.

Regards,

Tim Murphy 🙂

How does that work out for the venture capitalists? It seems like they'd be losing a lot of money doing that.

 

[hooker-of-men]

How does that work out for the venture capitalists? It seems like they'd be losing a lot of money doing that.

I'm not sure if this is a sincere question, but, if not, I'll take the bait. I'm more familiar with this based on examples from other industries (skateboarding, primarily), but I believe two things happen:

1) Once the private equity firm acquires a company, they cut labor like crazy and clear out employees to reduce costs while also scaling up cheap production. This is how you end up with once niche or fashionable brands filling TJ Maxx, Ross, etc. Quality goes out the window in order to move product in bulk.

2) (Fair warning: I'm too dumb and poor to explain this one.) PE firms sometimes use a model where they buy a company and then transfer the debt they incurred to that target company. So, they end up not actually having paid for the company, then maximize profit in the short term (see #1) and eventually sell at a budget price (since the company is now saddled with new debt) to another PE firm.

The difference I would note from Tim's post is that, in the examples I'm familiar with, the "squeezing everything and closing doors" is a multi-step process. The initial company is sold and resold at lower and lower prices (and with more and more debt, I assume) to increasingly shady PE firms until, eventually, it is declared bankrupt.

 

[Kms]

I'm not sure if this is a sincere question, but, if not, I'll take the bait. I'm more familiar with this based on examples from other industries (skateboarding, primarily), but I believe two things happen:

1) Once the private equity firm acquires a company, they cut labor like crazy and clear out employees to reduce costs while also scaling up cheap production. This is how you end up with once niche or fashionable brands filling TJ Maxx, Ross, etc. Quality goes out the window in order to move product in bulk.

2) (Fair warning: I'm too dumb and poor to explain this one.) PE firms sometimes use a model where they buy a company and then transfer the debt they incurred to that target company. So, they end up not actually having paid for the company, then maximize profit in the short term (see #1) and eventually sell at a budget price (since the company is now saddled with new debt) to another PE firm.

The difference I would note from Tim's post is that, in the examples I'm familiar with, the "squeezing everything and closing doors" is a multi-step process. The initial company is sold and resold at lower and lower prices (and with more and more debt, I assume) to increasingly shady PE firms until, eventually, it is declared bankrupt.

You’ve described vulture investors, who strip assets, extract cash and drive equity value to (near) zero.

Private equity firms generally invest with the goal of boosting company growth for resale or public offering, and, hence, realize profits from growth in the value of equity.

 

[hooker-of-men]

You’ve described vulture investors, who strip assets, extract cash and drive equity value to (near) zero.

Private equity firms generally invest with the goal of boosting company growth for resale or public offering, and, hence, realize profits from growth in the value of equity.

Again, as stated, my explanations were based on one industry where the impact of PE has been seemingly pretty negative on the whole.

(There are actually a handful of articles on the impact of PE on the skateboarding industry going viral in a small way within that community right now. Google will give more details and examples, if anyone is interested.)