Interesting Bloomberg article re: Private equity in flyfishing/Simms

poopdeck said:
Private equity is not a four letter word. I like investing in private equities more than I like Simms and everybody's portfolios should contain some PE investments.
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Agree - PE is using you to make money for them. You should use them to make money for YOU.

Regarding Simms - my early purchases from Simms were quality and long lasting (90s and early 2000s). On my last 4 pairs of Guide boots the soles came off of 3 of them, Simms replaced 1 pair saying the others had"lived their life" which they failed to define "life". These were purchased after 2015.

The last 2 pair of gore tex waders (headwaters pro and Guide Classic) were returned due to seam tape de-laminations in the feet and the material feels thin and flimsy compared to my earlier Simms Guide/G3 waders. 1 was repaired under warranty and the other was a $60 fee.

Orvis pro boots have been stellar regarding fit, comfort, and durability.
Will be looking elsewhere for waders when needed.
 
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poopdeck said:
As long as I maintain control over who gets my money for what, I don’t really care how companies decide to run their business.
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PE is exactly the opposite of this logic. It turns into 1 company owning many sub companies.

poopdeck said:
Private equity is not a four letter word. I like investing in private equities more than I like Simms and everybody's portfolios should contain some PE investments.
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Ah yes, the old who cares about the effect it has on society, as long as I can make a buck. Thats the American way!
 
poopdeck said:
I have zero brand loyalties and could not care any less about what Simms or any other company does. As long as I maintain control over who gets my money for what, I don’t really care how companies decide to run their business. If Simms cut into a local fly shops profit margin then the local shop can opt to sell something other than Simms gear. That’s business. Sounds to me like the local shop wanted to gouge customers on the price of waders and got mad when Simms included price controls. Companies rise and fall all the time so there will always be another Simms to fill the needs of anglers, as we already see. The thought that Simms sold out by selling in big box stores makes no sense. They didn’t sell out they just want to sell their wares in the places where the majority of people shop.

Private equity is not a four letter word. I like investing in private equities more than I like Simms and everybody's portfolios should contain some PE investments.
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troutbert said:
Is this profitable? If so, how?

Diminishing the brand reputation among customers and losing retail shops carrying their product, seems like a way to LOSE money, not make money.
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Short term, yeah. You make a premium product. It becomes popular and synonymous with quality. Now you can cheapen the product, but keep the brand and product name, sell at the same price point. People keep buying based on past good experiences with that product. Profits skyrocket.

Reputation fades slowly, and someone else comes out with a better product (what you used to be). Sales decline, but only slowly, as old timers say ____ has never let me down, and I don't like this new fangled stuff.

You can keep cheapening the product more and more as sales decline and keep profits up. As soon as it becomes impossible to profit you close shop or sell.

Pretty much EVERY major apparal and gear brand built on premium quality has gone down this road, private equity or not, in every industry. When the business gets big enough where bean counters run the show, it starts.
 
PennKev said:
Ebay is great if you have half an eternity to wait for new old stock to turn up in your size and you check it religiously.
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Ain't it the truth...

While it isn't a Simms product, my favorite wading shoes are the discontinued Chota STL Plus, even more specific, the STL Plus BEFORE the cheaper and inferior cop-out wedge heel & sole.

I've have a saved search on eBay for either version in my size for years now without a single hit...
 
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dudemanspecial said:
PE is exactly the opposite of this logic. It turns into 1 company owning many sub companies.


Ah yes, the old who cares about the effect it has on society, as long as I can make a buck. Thats the American way!
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This is so poetic, so noble and it’s garnering so many likes by fellow noblemen. Unfortunately, it is pure hogwash. Please tell me how many businesses you have started, owned or managed for the sole purpose of its effect on society with no regard to the dollar. For giggles let’s include everybody who liked your comment. In fact let’s collectively try to name one business established for its effect on society with not one regard to the dollar and what that great effect on society was.

Now let’s name businesses that were started with the sole purpose of making a dollar that has had great effect on society. Yep pretty much every private business out there. Now let’s talk about the effect on society when one of these dollar minded successful businesses employs tens of thousands of people. People who pay their taxes and climb the ladder to their own success. I’d say that’s a boom for society and those who need a hand.

sadly, the new American way is to sit around and spew hogwash for “likes” on the internet while blaming successful companies for pursuing a dollar over a poorly formed thought on some so called societal effect.

So Simms can choose to close its doors and send many to the unemployment line or they can sell to a PE who will do everything it can to keep the business profitable and keep as many people employed as allowed by the profits it can turn. So I guess it would be better for society if the business just closed. Why would I invest in PE’s if their goal was to squeeze every nickel they can get before shuttering the doors and leaving me with nothing for my investment. That’s some twisted logic.

Begbie said:
View attachment 1641247473
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So how many people do you employ? I’m guessing it’s somewhat less than a multibillion dollar company. What do you have against success? What do you have against those who create a business that allows many many others to succeed? I’m guessing society is better served by two grumpy old guys selling fly rods over the company employing tens of thousands.
 
poopdeck said:
This is so poetic, so noble and it’s garnering so many likes by fellow noblemen. Unfortunately, it is pure hogwash. Please tell me how many businesses you have started, owned or managed for the sole purpose of its effect on society with no regard to the dollar. For giggles let’s include everybody who liked your comment. In fact let’s collectively try to name one business established for its effect on society with not one regard to the dollar and what that great effect on society was.

Now let’s name businesses that were started with the sole purpose of making a dollar that has had great effect on society. Yep pretty much every private business out there. Now let’s talk about the effect on society when one of these dollar minded successful businesses employs tens of thousands of people. People who pay their taxes and climb the ladder to their own success. I’d say that’s a boom for society and those who need a hand.
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You are making a completely different argument than the discussion of PE buying up companies and making them suck. Nothing you said here has anything to do with what was being discussed.
 
Bamboozle said:
Ain't it the truth...

While it isn't a Simms product, my favorite wading shoes are the discontinued Chota STL Plus, even more specific, the STL Plus BEFORE the cheaper and inferior cop-out wedge heel & sole.

I've have a saved search on eBay for either version in my size for years now without a single hit...
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I'd honestly be surprised if Chota is still around in another couple years or so. Their product selection and quality is about what I would expect from wading gear found in you local Wal-Mart. They are following Hodgeman into oblivion.
 
This is the first year that I've seen a high end flyshop carry Frog Toggs .... I think the consumer is speaking ....
 
dudemanspecial said:
You are making a completely different argument than the discussion of PE buying up companies and making them suck. Nothing you said here has anything to do with what was being discussed.
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Actually it’s a counterpoint to your sentiments on the American way and, just as I suspected, the answer to my question is zero.

It’s apparent you didn’t read my last paragraph where I discussed why PE’s buying up companies may not suck and in fact has a great societal effect. I get it, I frequently don’t read long winded comments to the end myself. So, for societal effect reasons, is it better for simms to simply close its door or is it better for someone else to takeover and attempt to make them profitable again?

Where you like to leave terms like societal effect murky and undefined I provide clarity by stating companies employing lots of people is a great benifit to society. Trying to rescue companies and jobs, even for a profit, is a great thing for all. There is no logical counterpoint to this. Sadly, fantasy not logic rules the like buttons and algorithms of social media.
 
poopdeck said:
Actually it’s a counterpoint to your sentiments on the American way and, just as I suspected, the answer to my question is zero.

It’s apparent you didn’t read my last paragraph where I discussed why PE’s buying up companies may not suck and in fact has a great societal effect. I get it, I frequently don’t read long winded comments to the end myself. So, for societal effect reasons, is it better for simms to simply close its door or is it better for someone else to takeover and attempt to make them profitable again?

Where you like to leave terms like societal effect murky and undefined I provide clarity by stating companies employing lots of people is a great benifit to society. Trying to rescue companies and jobs, even for a profit, is a great thing for all. There is no logical counterpoint to this. Sadly, fantasy not logic rules the like buttons and algorithms of social media.
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Interesting sentiment, but I would point out simms was still profitable and projected to be ie (growth )when vista bought them and then they in turn sold again to PE. They changed the business model and it wasn't to save jobs, and that is ok. But ...,

They took away territorial exclusivity to many fly shops who had supported them for years going direct to consumers and had serious supply issues, failing to get large orders to the same retailers, a double slap in the face.

You are not wrong that private equity in general has saved some failing companies, but it has destroyed many also.

You can also support capitalism and still have the wherewithal to say that certain businesses practices are soulless and fueled by greed.
 
I have purchased a lot of Simms gear from Simms as the retailer's seldom have the entire line. Usually purchased waders on discount from Simms and have not had a problem with service or customer service.
Most of the problems come from retailers whom allow the customer try on waders without explanation of how to remove them properly.
 
Bamboozle said:
Ain't it the truth...

While it isn't a Simms product, my favorite wading shoes are the discontinued Chota STL Plus, even more specific, the STL Plus BEFORE the cheaper and inferior cop-out wedge heel & sole.

I've have a saved search on eBay for either version in my size for years now without a single hit...
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Is an Ebay saved search thread in order? I love vintage gear.
 
This thread has been an interesting read, and it's something I don't really care about. There will always be some company selling something that meets my expectations and demands of what I want.

hooker-of-men said:
Damn, dudes are out here thinking A Christmas Carol is a scary story about meanie ghosts harassing a nice, practical old man. Wild.
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It's very refreshing to see someone stylize the title of a novel in italics on an internet forum. Maybe I'm just a nerd, but I love seeing someone put in the extra effort for the sake of propriety.
 
jifigz said:
This thread has been an interesting read, and it's something I don't really care about. There will always be some company selling something that meets my expectations and demands of what I want.


It's very refreshing to see someone stylize the title of a novel in italics on an internet forum. Maybe I'm just a nerd, but I love seeing someone put in the extra effort for the sake of propriety.
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The bar for what I get right is set at title formatting 🤣
 
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