High holed - help me understand

[poopdeck]

The other was a day when I went to the Delaware to fish for shad with spinning tackle. The spot where I was fishing was popular with the non-wading crowd. When I got down to the river I was dismayed to see the bank lined with fishermen.

I was getting ready to leave when a guy yelled out to me, "Don't go, you can fit in next to me." Then the guys around him moved a bit to either side and I slipped in between.

No arguments, no complaining, miraculously no crossed lines and when someone hooked up, everybody else reeled in their lines so the other angler could play their fish.

Imagine that...

I’ve been close enough to other boats in Lambertville that we all shared lunches and snacks. The shad fishing crowd has actually gotten lighter over the years, no such thing as high or low holing there.

Recently I got to stream parked was gearing up and had a guy show up see me and literally grabbed his gear out trunk and started running up stream . Made me laugh like no hi no hello . I just thought to myself what not fun experience to feel the need to run to beat another angler to the water . I hiked it down and fished it up and car was gone . Idk it's hard sometimes but I try not to let others steal the joy of my fishing day .

Call me naive because I would think he only had a short time to fish because he had to take a kid to soccer practice or he was otherwise pressed for time. I go fishing most days or at least most of the days that I want to go fishing. Some people can only get out once in a blue moon. I’d rather they enjoy their once in a blue moon fishing trip over me fishing ahead of them on a run I’ve fished a hundred time or can come back to a hundred times.

I would suggest to resist and ignore this high holing feeling while you’re still young in your fishing journey. Don’t even let the concept take hold much like it never had the chance with me. Understand that most anglers are good people who don’t do things just to anger others and courtesy has different meanings to different folks. We don’t need another person out there who believes a hundred yards in either direction is their personal fishing space. The first hundred feet is all yours and you can happily have all of my fishing space that you feel you need as well. That’s my definition of courtesy.

 

[hooker-of-men]

I believe a large part of this concept comes from actual wording within the Montana fishing regulations handbook:

"River Etiquette
- Do not encroach on another angler’s space. Use the 'visual rule of crowding' and attempt to keep out of sight of other anglers, if at all possible."

So, while certainly not a law, there likely was some initial justification in that context for anglers to see folks hopping into the water above (or below) them and be frustrated. I imagine the spirit of this simply spread wider than Montana through whatever avenues.

In practice today, I would say this doesn't apply to the Madison any more than it applies to the Brodhead or Kettle Creek - due to the intensely heavy usage. I would, say, however, it applies on a 10 foot wide brookie stream or even the Battenkill (a local example for me). As others have said a number of times, exceptions and adjustments need to be made based on the common practices on that particularly waterway.

Turns out, that's actually how all etiquette works. I don't show up to a brewery in a tux with my own salad fork and fish fork to add to the place setting, and I don't show up to the WB Delaware ready to fight everyone within sight of me. That's on me to figure out.

 

[Sylvaneous]

With popular streams recieving such pressure, It would be tought to find a convenient place to fish that somebody wouldn't describe as "high holing". I mean, for me, I'm a bit pricklish. I want my spot, dammit. Anyone in my way or who shows up ticks me off some bit. It's part of my mental package. Nobody would describe me as "laid back" But some time studying reveals the condition of stream trout fishing pressure (use). And some people just need to take a CHILL. During the 2009 cicada hatch, I was working up Spring below Bellefonte. I was hitting and moving,as I could do better back then when my mobility was better. A guy was fishing the glide below the kayak course. When I saw him, I got out of the water and went around him on the high side by the road, opposite of the RR tracks. I was heading back down to the creek towards the kayak course. I was far from the creek when he started yelling at me. It took me a while to even know what he was doing, I was so far away , upstream from him, not fishing and not in/near the water. I don't understand what code of his I violated. Maybe because I was moving? Is anyone allowed to walk past someone and fish in any visible location? I dunno. I just kept doing what I was doing, which was NOT high holing him by any definition I would recognize.
If you are not beyond a long cast, you are too close. Being too close and high holing are kind of the same thing. It's a situational and personal definition.
Syl

 

[wbranch]

In regards to drift boat fishing "low holing" is the guy who is often looking upriver and if he sees another boat coming he might just lift the anchor and drop down to his next favorite run or pool. I've seen guides do it all the time on the Big Horn in Montana. There are often so many boats on the WB and main stem Delaware that it's hard to know if a guy is "low holing" the guy coming down river or he just wanted to make a move. Admittedly I often like to get on the river earlier than most and just by nature of being out when few boats are out I can fish new water all the way down river until I decide I want to setup in a stretch know to have rising trout.

 

[tramp]

Once on the Gunpowder I was having a rough day. That was normal for me on that river. I finally got into some cooperative fish and was doing OK which wasn't normal. A few kids showed up and waded right into where I was casting. I stood there for a minute glaring. One of the kids gave me the bird. I stewed for a minute then proceeded to march right down the middle of the river making as much noise and splashing as I could. I guarantee no one caught anything for awhile in that spot. 😀

That was a long time ago and I'm not that guy anymore. Today I'd just get out and walk somewhere else. Although I won't lie I did enjoy the shocked stares I got that day as I marched downstream.

 

[Bamboozle]

It's not high-holing in the purest sense of the word, but there is something I call a$$-holing...

This is when a non-fishing doofus or several doofi paddle their kayaks between me anchored in a boat 20 yards or so off-shore and OBVIOUSLY casting TOWARDS shore, because they HAVE TO paddle around the EXACT perimeter of a lake or reservoir...

I just don't get it or the lack of courtesy...

True story; the MOST egregious example of this happened to me at Lyman Run Reservoir on Memorial Day Weekend several years back.

I was in a float tube and casting a Texposed Senko towards shore when a guy ran at least a 10 foot long radio controlled scale model of an Iowa Class battleship back & forth between me and the shore with the horns and sirens blaring!!!

As I fumed, I was getting ready to snag the thing with a 4/0 hook and 17lb test fluorocarbon line in an attempt to capsize it, when the a$$hole "sailed" it in the opposite direction.

It might have been a model of the USS New Jersey...

Damn "front-platers." 😉

 

[Yoder]

If you are fishing one spot, do you think you are entitled to fish the next hole up from you? Say it's at least 50 yards. How is the next person supposed to know if you will be fishing for 5 minutes or an hour? What if you are leaving after a few more casts? Getting all bent out of shape about is silly.

 

[Solitariolupo]

It's not high-holing in the purest sense of the word, but there is something I call a$$-holing...

This is when a non-fishing doofus or several doofi paddle their kayaks between me anchored in a boat 20 yards or so off-shore and OBVIOUSLY casting TOWARDS shore, because they HAVE TO paddle around the EXACT perimeter of a lake or reservoir...

I just don't get it or the lack of courtesy...

True story; the MOST egregious example of this happened to me at Lyman Run Reservoir on Memorial Day Weekend several years back.

I was in a float tube and casting a Texposed Senko towards shore when a guy ran at least a 10 foot long radio controlled scale model of an Iowa Class battleship back & forth between me and the shore with the horns and sirens blaring!!!

As I fumed, I was getting ready to snag the thing with a 4/0 hook and 17lb test fluorocarbon line in an attempt to capsize it, when the ****** "sailed" it in the opposite direction.

It might have been a model of the USS New Jersey...

Damn "front-platers." 😉

Kayakers are the worst most don’t fish and have no clue to stay away from you. When I fish a lake I’m always telling them to stay away from my line.

The best is when I was fishing the bay and had a big sting ray on. 2 people come out on those wave runners I screamed as they were going for my line the guy must of heard me and just barely went around the woman gave it gas and went for the line. Almost took her face off and I was sitting there in shock. I mean you couldn’t miss me standing there with the rod in my hands.

 

[lars]

Yes but how far was the top of the run from you. Was it a couple hundred feet or was it a roll cast away?

it was a fairly short run and i was about halfway up it steadily moving, working my up towards the best water. besides, the fish lay right along the bank he was noisily walking up knocking rocks into the run as he went.

 

[rancid waders]

It could be worse. We could all have evolved into bait anglers at the top of their game

 

[Bamboozle]

I've never been high holed by a bait fisherman...

 

[Swattie87]

Outside of STW’s for maybe the weekend of opening day, and the following weekend (I just generally avoid them then), and perhaps a couple dozen at most, larger popular streams (essentially the big Central PA limestoners, the big northern tier freestoners, and a small grouping of larger tailwaters), and Steelhead obviously, this is really a non-issue in PA IMO. I mean seriously, I’ve probably spent close to 1000 days fishing in PA. And the negative encounters I’ve had with other anglers I can count on less than one hand, and they were all on streams that I’d include in that grouping above.

Just be nice and enjoy yourself out there. If you’re going to a place that can be crowded, expect to have other anglers around. Don’t let someone else being a jerk ruin your day. Just walk away, don’t retaliate. It’s not cool, yeah, but it’s also not that big of a deal. Someone who doesn’t have the common sense, or decency, or both, to read the situation on the stream and give other anglers a reasonable amount of space, isn’t gonna be receptive to you attempting to explain it to them. Through your actions or words.

 

[wildtrout2]

I've never been high holed by a bait fisherman...

Waaay back when I first started out as a spin/bait guy, I wouldn't have thought twice about it. 😉

 

[JMP]

I went to fish a stream on a nice March day. The stream is about 100 yards from the road. I parked where there was a clear cut for power lines and walked down to the stream. As I entered the water, a group of four teenagers parked in front of me and hiked down to the stream. They entered the water right above me a proceeded to walk directly through the stream until I could no longer see them. Later in the day as I was at my truck preparing to leave, another angler stopped in front of me. He stated he was driving on the road that morning and saw what happened earlier that day. He couldn’t believe what happened.

 

[JimKennedy]

And got Scranton style pizza twice.

I was beginning to get the feeling, as Dieter might say, that this conversation had grown tiresome and it was time to touch the monkey, until I came across this comment. Is Scranton style pizza anything like Senape's (pronounced Snaps) Pizza in Hazleton?

If you're unfamiliar, it's square pizza on thick crust with a heavy tomato sauce and a generous sprinkling of parm cheese (no mossarella). Kind of like an Amish tomato pie with parm cheese. It comes stacked two layers deep in a white cardboard box with blue lettering, neatly tied with butcher's twine. I suppose you could heat it up.

Now is the time on Sprockets when we dance.

 

[poopdeck]

I got out of the water and went around him on the high side by the road, opposite of the RR tracks. I was heading back down to the creek towards the kayak course. I was far from the creek when he started yelling at me. It took me a while to even know what he was doing, I was so far away , upstream from him, not fishing and not in/near the water. I don't understand what code of his I violated. Maybe because I was moving? Is anyone allowed to walk past someone and fish in any visible location? I dunno. I just kept doing what I was doing, which was NOT high holing him by any definition I would recognize.
If you are not beyond a long cast, you are too close. Being too close and high holing are kind of the same thing. It's a situational and personal definition.
Syl

Not my definition of bad etiquette on your part. This is a perfect example of etiquette boundaries being expanded by selfish anglers. Somewhere along the line people took the accepted etiquette of personal space to include future personal space or someplace where they might be later in the morning. That other guy was the bonehead.

If you are fishing one spot, do you think you are entitled to fish the next hole up from you? Say it's at least 50 yards. How is the next person supposed to know if you will be fishing for 5 minutes or an hour? What if you are leaving after a few more casts? Getting all bent out of shape about is silly.

PUH-POW! Again, the guy expecting future space is the selfish anglers and is guilty of poor etiquette. I would never lay claim to potential future space over someone else and that’s how I would expect others to treat me.

Just be nice and enjoy yourself out there. If you’re going to a place that can be crowded, expect to have other anglers around. Don’t let someone else being a jerk ruin your day. Just walk away, don’t retaliate. It’s not cool, yeah, but it’s also not that big of a deal. Someone who doesn’t have the common sense, or decency, or both, to read the situation on the stream and give other anglers a reasonable amount of space, isn’t gonna be receptive to you attempting to explain it to them. Through your actions or words.

Agreed! However, everybody’s definition of reasonable is vastly different. The guys with the unreasonable space requirements are probably also the ones who will create a scene and are not worth interacting with. Engaging an unreasonable person will only lead to more unreasonableness.

After four pages there is still no consensus on what exactly high holing is. I guess we have to accept that high holing is in the eye of the beholder.

 

[TimMurphy]

I was beginning to get the feeling, as Dieter might say, that this conversation had grown tiresome and it was time to touch the monkey, until I came across this comment. Is Scranton style pizza anything like Senape's (pronounced Snaps) Pizza in Hazleton?

If you're unfamiliar, it's square pizza on thick crust with a heavy tomato sauce and a generous sprinkling of parm cheese (no mossarella). Kind of like an Amish tomato pie with parm cheese. It comes stacked two layers deep in a white cardboard box with blue lettering, neatly tied with butcher's twine. I suppose you could heat it up.

View attachment 1641252214
Now is the time on Sprockets when we dance.

Dear Jim,

According to my Hazelton friends Senapes pizza is supposed to be eaten at room temperature straight from the box that is sitting on the kitchen table. It's different, but similar to Nirchi's Pizza from Endicott NY that you used to be able to buy in individually wrapped slices at gas stations and convenience stores all over the southern Tier of NY.

Regards,

Tim Murphy 🙂

 

[Swattie87]

It’s a million shades of gray based on the circumstances, bottom line. On small streams for practical purposes it’s not really ever an issue. If there’s a guy there, it’s best for you (and coincidentally him too) for you to fish your backup plan for the day. That will fish better than fishing behind someone all day, or hiking all day to figure out where they are.

On big streams, this is maybe the best way to put it as I see it…Read how crowded it is, and when you pick a spot to hop in, make sure wherever you pick you’re not the closest guy to another guy. Best you can do. Most guys will be fine with that, and if not, then they’re the jerk, on a popular stream on a busy day.

Scranton style pizza as I’ve always understood it is cooked in a shallow, usually greased, rectangular tray pan, expect a sweet-ish red sauce, it has cheese, and finely diced sweet onions, under the cheese. You can get toppings on it, but most regulars and fans of the style don’t. When you order, you order a “tray” for a large. Some places will let you do a half tray, which is half of a large. In terms of taste, it ends up somewhere lighter than a Sicilian, and heavier than a Detroit. IMO the better ones have that Detroit fried like quality to the crust.

This is my personal favorite, Ricci’s in Wilkes-Barre actually. What is pictured is a “half tray”. 2 slices per person is probably the standard math. Big eaters will eat 3. If I’m fishing within 45 mins or so of Wilkes-Barre, a full tray always comes home with me. Well, the whole tray doesn’t make it the whole way home, but you get it. Got me jonesin’ for one now.

 

[Tigereye]

Read this thread with some interest. It seems it all boils down to what someone's personal comfort level is at the time and place they are fishing. We all have different levels.

Im a fairly chill guy and just move on. However, if your fishing impedes my fishing, ( at the moment) then you are too close.

If you enter a stream 40 yards up or downstream fishing a hole or area I intended to fish but not presently fishing, have at it no big deal. We are not mind readers. Depending on stream size, wadability, fishability, and number of fisherman on the water in the area at the time, your proximity to me should be far enough so that we are not competing for the same fishable water.

Fishing with a buddy, we usually hopscotch runs/ holes etc. Sometimes share a run if there is room. Again, not impeding the other guys fishing.

Its just fishing guys.

 

[Sylvaneous]

...then there is 'corn-holing' that cannot be done with chest waders, only hip boots 😉😱😀😛😀