Data Center along Swatara Creek

wildtrout2 said:
It has been mentioned in the media that jobs are being lost because of AI, and it'll get worse. You're right, nobody wants it in their backyard.
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A good amount of job losses just happened to coincide with companies realizing they over hired during the aftermath of COVID to "lock in" a pool of talent. AI (and the positive hype over it-it's both ways) accelerated it somewhat. I can't remember where I read/heard it but this quote is very accurate IMO:
You won't lose your job to AI, you will lose it to someone who uses AI
 
JMP said:
I have to disagree with this statement. I spent my career in laboratory medicine. The use of AI in pathology has provided tremendous improvement in disease detection and treatment. For example, AI has provided earlier cancer detection and personalized treatment that reduces side effects.
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Thank you for clarifying that...I completely agree with you on it's use in medicine. That's why I stated there "have been some positives". I had a medical issue (cancer related) a few years ago and fully appreciate any advances in medicine that AI provides now and in the future.
 
wildtrout2 said:
Do you use ChatGPT? I find it quite detailed and very accurate.
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I agree. The speed of improvement is impressive. When ChatGPT first came out I tested it in my area of expertise, specifically asking questions about my research. It was spotty but broadly accurate. Fast forward 2 years later and it is remarkably better and accurate. It is not flawless. The accuracy depends on the prompts- the questions asked. The effectiveness requires the user to tweak the response with the knowledge or another prompt. Something that took 2-4 hours to research now takes 15 min.

My greatest fear, TBH, is the lazy factor. People will stop thinking critically and more slop will creep through. One prior, low tech example is that I have noticed autocorrect in word-processing programs has degraded my spelling and typing capabilities.
 
nymphingmaniac said:
The reason is... doom sells and gets clicks
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Doom and gloom also counters those in industry who minimize risks.
It works both ways. And I see nothing wrong with looking at and analyzing risks of worse case scenario. Often times impacts occur over time. You mentioned fracking earlier as an example of worse fears not realizes. We don’t know yet what the longer term impacts are. Of Course worse fears are rarely realized but they also helped get extra Protections in there that would not have been in place had people just trusted the industry “experts”.
 
wildtrout2 said:
I've said from the start, the amounts of water some of these larger faciities use for cooling is enormous. No surprise them being vauge on the subject.
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I don't think they were being dishonest. At such an early stage of planning- and this is preliminary- they don't have clear number on their needs. This is also part of the problem with data centers. It takes so long from a public meeting like this on planning to building to start of operation, demands grow quickly. At final planning limits, like other water use projects, must be set.
 
riverwhy said:
I mentioned this on the previous page will add it here as well. 500 acre with 75% of
It impervious. One guy in particular that spoke had a great
Knowledge of of the local geology and the vulnerability to sinkholes. Girl from the Dauphin County conservation spoke of the regulations farmers face that industry doesn’t. Head
Of Hershey land trust. Resident testified how the quarry was connected to his groundwater and it isn’t being treated as such. Woman with the baby and Bible quotes was epic.
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Thanks for attending the meeting, reporting on it, and trying to get this thread back on track. This is what's relevant to me as a concerned angler, outdoorsman, and local citizen.

Although someone will likely hijack it again. Maybe Dave could use AI to create a filter that weeds out all the off-topic rants that seem to take over most threads. 🤣
 
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TimB said:
Thanks for attending the meeting, reporting on it, and trying to get this thread back on track. This is what's relevant to me as a concerned angler, outdoorsman, and local citizen.

Although someone will likely hijack it again. Maybe Dave could use AI to create a filter that weeds out all the off-topic rants that seem to take over most threads. 🤣
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Of the many ways in which threads can derail, I don't think discussing AI/LLMs in a data center thread is one of them.

Data centers do many things, people assume they only do one singular one and the "worst case scenario" is the one that keeps the torch and pitchfork stores in business.

It's also important to think about what happens to those commercial lots if a data center isn't allowed. Would you like another warehouse? Coz the one thing we do know is you're not getting a park or the property left alone.
 
While it may be true that those commercial lots wont be turned into parks, they may be turned into something that the localities could use and be employed by, and that are a lesser net negative on the surrounding environment and communities. Between actual health concerns, property devaluation, environmental concerns, and overall eye sores that dont actually really benefit the localities as far as employment opportunities or economic activities, there are many reasons they are not popular, particularly in population centers and along important waterways.

All for what, 50 full times jobs that will be made up almost entirely of people from out of state with specialized training?

That doesnt even begin to factor in the draw on the local waterways that is already running so low that wells are dry in some places.

Thats a no for me. Hard pass.
 
After construction data centers will still provide a constant stream of employment. You need someone there to touch things. To watch the doors. To make sure the building doesn't burn down. It's not just an empty space of machines. You are correct that its not a heavy staff, but it's 24x7 and they're local.

Data centers are constantly under work. Once they're built there's a constant stream of electricians, HVAC techs, general contractors, and other associated people working on it. To say nothing of semi-local consultants who will come in to work on the customer cages when required.

Is it the most efficient use of space per job? No. Is it a giant empty building that no one ever touches again? Absolutely not.

You've come back to water, again, but I will say again that there's no heavy water use in most data centers.

No one is building a crypto mining hub or AI data center in PA. And if they are, don't worry, they're going to go bankrupt because they clearly make terrible choices.
 

Some facts by SRBC. While only 1 small phase of a hyperscale datacenter has received approval from SRBC for water withdrawal, there are multiple other proposals under discussion to use millions of gallons of water per day.

I am curious about the datacenters you are familiar with and work at. I am guessing they are not hyperscale and not nearly to the scale of the propsals that are causing the increased concern by the public.

I also think its fair to say a good number of these proposals are purely speculative.

Projects in close proximity to three mile island or dirctly along transmission infrastructure from there will certainly be prioritized by tech companies. As is the area around the berwick nuclear plant. We will likely see complexes of dozens of datacenters in those areas.

Amazon and other datacenter developers have purchased thousands of acres pf property near the berwick nuclear plant.
 
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lycoflyfisher said:
I am curious about the datacenters you are familiar with and work at. I am guessing they are not hyperscale and not nearly to the scale of the propsals that are causing the increased concern by the public.
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One of them is currently undergoing a 100MW expansion on it's 140 acre property. I don't know how many SF the actual DCs take up for that, however. I don't know what our water use rate is there, but I do know there's no giant evaporative water towers like everyone seems to think they all use.

None of the other ones I've been in have that, either. Most of them can happily support the sort of hyperscalar blade servers but AFAIK we don't have any of the AWS or Azure infrastucture in place. Those go into their own DCs.

You need two things for massive data centers that support that. You need power and you need connectivity. There might be a nuke plant up the road, but the connectivity infrastrcture just isn't in place.

The big guys are looking at places like Ashburn, VA because it's the most heavily networked place on Earth becuase that's where MAE East used to be. You're also seeing them in places like the Pacific north west because while there's less infrastructure there and it needs to be built out the enviroment is cooler and thus more conductive to things than PA is.
 
gfenlikestolosepasswords said:
Of the many ways in which threads can derail, I don't think discussing AI/LLMs in a data center thread is one of them.

Data centers do many things, people assume they only do one singular one and the "worst case scenario" is the one that keeps the torch and pitchfork stores in business.

It's also important to think about what happens to those commercial lots if a data center isn't allowed. Would you like another warehouse? Coz the one thing we do know is you're not getting a park or the property left alone.
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You act like you have exclusive insight into AI and data centers. Ever stop to think that others might know a thing or two, but don't feel the need to derail the topic at hand, endlessly making the same tired points over and over?

I worked in AI-driven medical image analysis as far back as the 1980's, on a state-of-the-art system where the CPU controlling my 1-megapixel monochrome camera had a footprint the size of a refrigerator. I lived through the early days of the development and adoption of digital image processing tools for medical imaging, which are now part of everyday life. I could go on about my four decades of personal experience and the pros and cons of AI and data needs in science, medicine, and the creative arts, but who cares? That has little to do with a specific data center being proposed here. No one needs to hear it, and my apologies to others who may want to stay on-topic.

I have no problem with you expressing your opinion, but why not start your own thread so you can rant as much as about "torch and pitchfork?" "worst case..." without hijacking this one?
 
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Good for you, then you already understand the need for machine learning based infrastructure which has no bearing on any of this since we're talking about the actual data center buildouts and how no one is putting "AI data centers" along Swatara Creek.
 
Actually, thats exactly what they are trying to do, and why this thread is actually important to have. But let's not let facts get in the way of good emotional shiposting.

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I don't understand why they could not use the mine water in the miles and miles of coal mining tunnels and put it back into the tunnels when done. It could possibly help clean up the mine water and find other uses for the chemicals that they might dredge up.
 
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