There is a meeting tomorrow night at 6:30 at the South Hanover Township Building if anyone is interested. We were originally told warehouse but that just changed. The location would be on the opposite side of the Swatara from the KOA on Hersheypark Drive. I don’t know many details at this point but this is a beautiful stretch of the Swatara with a number of springs that will likely be affected.
Data Center along Swatara Creek
- Thread starter riverwhy
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wildtrout2
Well-known member
From what I've read, water sources are often an issue with these data centers. Infrastructure in general. For those in the know, is this pretty accurate?
TimMurphy
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Dear Mike,
If they utilize the water in the closed quarry they could literally pump it out and put it back in the quarry.
They'll probably drill 500 wells though.
Regards,
Tim Murphy 🙂
gfenlikestolosepasswords
Well-known member
No. Because you're conflating "we build this thing in the middle of the desert!" with "we built this thing in the middle of a temperate area."
It will drain no water. It will have no effect on your life at all. You wanted "the cloud," well that's "the cloud."
Anti-data center propaganda is weirdly strong for some reason. And dumb.
Have any "data" to back that statement up? Or is this just the usual PAFF stick-my-head-in-the-sand posturing?
Personally, I have no desire or need for your "cloud". What I do want is a healthy environment.
Here's just one potential negative effect of data centers on the surrounding area. Seems to be based on a scientific study rather than "propaganda". If you have any studies that refute it, I'll take a look and keep an open mind. In the meantime, the concerns don't seem all that "dumb" to me.
PA Environment Digest
Fortune Magazine: A.I. Data Centers Are So Hot Their ‘Heat Island’ Effect Is Raising Temperatures Up To 6 Miles Away
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wildtrout2
Well-known member
Sounded more like opinion to me, rather than a fact/data based statement. No surprise though.Have any "data" to back that statement up? Or is this just the usual PAFF stick-my-head-in-the-sand posturing?
Personally, I have no desire or need for your "cloud". What I do want is a healthy environment.
Here's just one potential negative effect on the surrounding area. Seems to be based on scientific studies rather than "propaganda". If you have any studies that refute it, I'll take a look and keep an open mind. In the meantime, the concerns don't seem all that "dumb" to me.
PA Environment Digest
Fortune Magazine: A.I. Data Centers Are So Hot Their ‘Heat Island’ Effect Is Raising Temperatures Up To 6 Miles Away
I've read water is used to cool an estimated 75%-90% of large scale data centers worldwide. One large "hyperscale" data center can use between 1 million and 5 million gallons per day. Again, just what I've "read".
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gfenlikestolosepasswords
Well-known member
You're using it right now, you know. Where do you think this website lives, on an old G4 under Dave's desk?
How about every other website you visit. Where your text messages live. Your call logs. Your medical data. Your office email. Your spreadsheets. Your gmail account. Every web search you've ever done. Every porn you've ever websearched up watch.
All of it.
Every. Last. Bit. And it's been there more or less for the last 25 years. Prior to that it was possibly in a little room in the back of your job site, but technically, that too is in fact a data center they just used to call them "telco closets."
My knowledge? I've been working in a local data center for that 25 years now. For a company that has owned about two dozen across the country.
wildtrout2
Well-known member
Anything in my last post regarding large data center use of water sound inaccurate?
gfenlikestolosepasswords
Well-known member
The vast majority of data centers are being used for traditional computing not "AI" and rely on CRAC (Computer Room Air Conditioning) units.
nymphingmaniac
Well-known member
It's the same playbook used against fracking. None of the doomsday scenarios occurred. Some because it was not as expansive as dooms day estimates, some because technology mitigated effects and mostly the effects were overblown.
The Forbes article- read it all- indicates the shift in technology is already mitigating the effects and independent studies of the same data suggested the heat increase is due to building and the resulting loss of vegetation rather than the cooling per se. The same would be true for housing, warehouses, hospitals etc.
I've fished the Swatara around that area for bass. It is a warm water fishery, no? Isn't the water returned with minimal evaporation when used in cooling? Under these scenarios and predicted flows of a larger river, what is the temperature delta from such centers? If data centers were warming water of smaller coldwater fisheries I'd be more concerned- and this could happen.
there are concerns about AI data centers and its great, no, essential to be vigilant and ask questions. But hysteria gets us nowhere. The amount of energy used is an issue, but the advances from AI are required to solve world problems. Energy is also consumed to drive 100-150 miles to fish a stream in a pickup truck or SUV. We. consume energy to support our lifestyles. AI is part of that.
lycoflyfisher
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Ai says hyperscale datacenters require 100-500MW on average at a continuous demand. Check how many homes that can power. Its an incredible amount of electricity. We do not have enough power for all of the datacenters that are proposed. Lots of backroom deals being done, including by our governor to push some of these projects through local zoning and state permitting processes. Very little thought is being given to cumulative impacts to the regions power supply and the potential cumulative water consumption is extreme.
Responsible development is well planned, thought out and includes public input.
As of now, I am not certain we have a hyperscale data center in operation. Lots of small ones. Several hyperscale facilities are under construction as we speak. One in Berwick next to the nuke plant, with more on the way.
Responsible development is well planned, thought out and includes public input.
As of now, I am not certain we have a hyperscale data center in operation. Lots of small ones. Several hyperscale facilities are under construction as we speak. One in Berwick next to the nuke plant, with more on the way.
shortrod
Active member
This. The governor's plan is to trade massive tax breaks to a data center for the very temporary construction jobs to build the thing. Also the data center must have a payroll of at least 1 million. For this, the citizens of PA only have to pay billions in higher electric bills. This is a lose/lose scenario for us. I am getting very tired of the grift.
The proper way to do this, would be to require the data centers to provide there own electric generation. But that would take much longer to amortize and make the massive profits.
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wildtrout2
Well-known member
That's if they're not using several millions of gallons to cool the facility. Some use water, some use electric.
nymphingmaniac
Well-known member
I've read from multiple trade sources that the major driver of their stand-alone power generation is control AND reliability, not profits. The math has to math, though. Also, to reduce public and government blowback. It's win-win. smaller centers can contribute to maintaining and improving the grid for all.
So your answer to my first question is no.
Speaking of conflating, you forgot to include increased data demands for Bitcoin, crypto, and AI in your list of uses. The historical use of data centers (which power things like PAFF) has little to do with the mad rush to build new large-scale centers in ecologically sensitive areas. It's a distinction that is anything but "dumb."
lycoflyfisher
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They all will use water in our climate for cooling. Question is how much? They still require a constant supply of large amounts of electricity. Most are being designed with backup diesel generators capable of running the facility.
shortrod
Active member
Are you going to pay my electric bill? I am not against data centers, I am against welfare for ridiculously rich men (tax breaks, allowing them to turn our somewhat cheap electricity into expensive electricity) so they can become insanely rich men at our expense. That would be dumb in my opinion.
shortrod
Active member
I am sorry, I did not express my thoughts clear enough. I did not mean that the data center could/would make massive profits from generation. The massive profits are from selling the services of the data center.
