Dam coming down

[lycoflyfisher]

True about the Klamath, Elwha and other western dams .

The old dams here were mostly small electrical power or mill water power generation and recreational impoundment, right?

I'm all for removal of out of date and disused dams and buildings. But, one of the drawbacks for some removals is the impact on real estate.

In Oregon, an old, old, dam created an impoundment that eventually had communities of lakeside homes and cabins. When the dam was breached and the river returned to its natural channel, suddenly those homeowners had large stinking mud flats in front of them and lost massive property value. I don't think that will happen here, but I'm not sure many will be ready for the sudden changes removal sometimes brings.

To play devils advocate what about the loss of functioning farms and real estate that were loss for the construction of flood control dams?

Some dams surely have economic and recreational benefits.

This idea that dam removals always lead to stinky mudflats is almost entirely false. Sure, maybe there is exposed sediment for a short period of time. But most dam removal sites result in lush riparian and wetland habitats along the restored water course in a short period of time.

While lakes densely surrounded with houses and vacation homes probably arent targeted for removal, maintaining earthen dams is expensive and they have a life span. The cost of repairs may not be feasible for some communities. Below is a current example

Judge: Fate of Lake Wynonah in hands of community board

A Lake Wynonah property owner asked the Pennsylvania Environmental Hearing Board for help Monday afternoon to halt a full drawdown of the community’s 175-acre reservoir to repair the dam. The EHB judge essentially said that his hands…

www.republicanherald.com

 

[6xAdams(Jones)]

Hokayyyy,? Don't see how this ties in with dam removal... and I do remember reading @vern 's post.

Just kidding.

 

[troutbert]

This idea that dam removals always lead to stinky mudflats is almost entirely false. Sure, maybe there is exposed sediment for a short period of time. But most dam removal sites result in lush riparian and wetland habitats along the restored water course in a short period of time.

In a very short period of time. The mudflats are well vegetated within one growing season. Even if you plant nothing.

A house near a lake is nice. A house near a river is nice, too.

 

[TimMurphy]

True about the Klamath, Elwha and other western dams .

The old dams here were mostly small electrical power or mill water power generation and recreational impoundment, right?

I'm all for removal of out of date and disused dams and buildings. But, one of the drawbacks for some removals is the impact on real estate.

In Oregon, an old, old, dam created an impoundment that eventually had communities of lakeside homes and cabins. When the dam was breached and the river returned to its natural channel, suddenly those homeowners had large stinking mud flats in front of them and lost massive property value. I don't think that will happen here, but I'm not sure many will be ready for the sudden changes removal sometimes brings.

Dear WR,

What you mention about real estate may be what's holding up the demolition of the Hulmeville Dam. There is a private boat club upstream of the dam. Likewise, the one in Oakford backs water up to Bridgetown Pike and creates a long flat pool in the backyards of homes along the Neshaminy Creek. When I was a kid, we used to launch a canoe at Bridgetown Pike and float down to the dam and paddle back up. The people who lived along the creek didn't care. Lots of people floated it, but in today's world I don't know how people along the creek would take that.

Regards,

Tim Murphy 🙂

 

[Oregon_OwlII]

Dear WR,

I grew up in the area. There are two much larger dams downstream at Hulmeville and Oakford that will need to be removed before this removal has the chance to do anything.

Regards,

Tim Murphy 🙂

I concur. I also grew up in the area and often fished below the Hulmeville Dam. Above the dam was a long dead water zone. The bottom was 12-20 inches of muck, and no fish to be found. After I moved away, my brother told me he caught a 12 inch striper at the base of the Hulmeville Dam, which led me to believe that some type of a striper run might be possible on that stream, but the other two dams need to go. With respect to boat clubs and backwater properties, unless they own the dam, the decision to remove rests with the dam owner. Orphan dams can be removed by the state, I believe. The water company might own the Oakford Dam.

 

[poopdeck]

i think that's the dam where the Park Ranger drowned last year in Tyler Park when his kayak capsized.

The Ranger drowned at the dam in the center of the park where the picnic grove is. The dam being removed is one down ant the edge of the park and is called the Spring Mill dam. It’s near the old Mill building off of rt. 332 (Almshouse Rd/Newtown Richboro Rd)

I can’t wait to see the results. This is minutes from my house and I am intimately familiar with every foot of this area of the creek. I’ll be excited to learn an entirely new section. I hope they don't screw it up because I really like the 3/4 mile section below this dam and believe it to be one of the best sections of the creeks 47 miles.

I keep myself relatively informed on the goings on in my neighborhood and felt this just popped up at of the blue. I learned it was being removed, starting tomorrow, just the other day. Heard some talk a while ago that it was being considered but that was it.

 

[troutbert]

For those familiar with this dam and creek, what fish populations do you expect will increase as a result of the removal?

 

[Bamboozle]

I'm all for removal of out of date and disused dams and buildings. But, one of the drawbacks for some removals is the impact on real estate...

The first place I ever fished in my life and the first place I ever caught a fish on that first time out was a small impoundment on the East Branch of Chester Creek in East Milltown, Chester County called Milltown Reservoir.

It was a small reservoir with houses around the perimeter that was just perfect for us 12 & 13 year old kids because we took a bus there from where we lived just outside of Philly to go fishing every weekend.

I remember thinking how lucky the folks were that lived around our fishin' spot until about 2015 when it was discovered the 100-year old concrete dam had lots of problems and East Goshen Township decided it was more cost effective to partially breach the dam to draw down the reservoir.

Today you can't even see the creek channel from the road that parallels the old reservoir because of how overgrown it's become in 10 years.

Better safe than sorry, but I miss the old place and I'm sure the folks that live around " mosquito marsh" miss it too...

 

[TimMurphy]

For those familiar with this dam and creek, what fish populations do you expect will increase as a result of the removal?

Dear troutbert,

I'm not sure there will be increases in fish population because of the removal of the dam. There may be redistribution of existing fish, but because the lower 10 miles of the stream will still be closed to fish passage it's not like shad and stripers will return.

The Neshaminy is a warm-water stream with the typical collection of fish. Smallmouth bass, bluegills, green sunfish, some pumpkinseeds and perhaps some remnant population of rock bass are the primary fishes. The slower water will have the occasional largemouth bass too. Years ago, there was a tributary or two of the Neshaminy in the upper middle section that had some successful trout reproduction but that was literally 50 years ago, and I have no idea what has happened since. Rounding out the fish population are the usual suspects, carp, catfish, bullheads, suckers, and a variety of minnows.

Regards,

Tim Murphy 🙂

 

[salmo]

Will there be any impact on water temperature?

 

[poopdeck]

For those familiar with this dam and creek, what fish populations do you expect will increase as a result of the removal?

Great question! No clue. As TM said, SMB, rock bass, sunnies, and carp rule below the dam. The stream bed is rocky and generally anywhere between 2’ and 5’ deep. In addition to what was mentioned above, I have also caught LMB and crappie in this section. Above the dam is a silty muddy mess that is hard to access until you get to the next dam by the boathouse, the weir dam, where the ranger drowned. I’ve never really fished the area between the dams but have enough times to know this section is loaded with water snakes and snapping turtles the size of trash can lids like this guy who swam to within inches of my foot before turning. You can also see the silty muddy bottom.

I just hope it doesn’t silt in below the dam. I imagine it will initially but will eventually get washed out. I hope it helps the SMB with better flowing water. I’m excited and can’t wait to find out. The fact that I will have to learn this area all over again will be rejuvenating. Also, the area above the dam will become more easily accessible as well.

 

[Oregon_OwlII]

Dear troutbert,

I'm not sure there will be increases in fish population because of the removal of the dam. There may be redistribution of existing fish, but because the lower 10 miles of the stream will still be closed to fish passage it's not like shad and stripers will return.

The Neshaminy is a warm-water stream with the typical collection of fish. Smallmouth bass, bluegills, green sunfish, some pumpkinseeds and perhaps some remnant population of rock bass are the primary fishes. The slower water will have the occasional largemouth bass too. Years ago, there was a tributary or two of the Neshaminy in the upper middle section that had some successful trout reproduction but that was literally 50 years ago, and I have no idea what has happened since. Rounding out the fish population are the usual suspects, carp, catfish, bullheads, suckers, and a variety of minnows.

Regards,

Tim Murphy 🙂

I did catch a pickerel once in the lower end of the stream, near Hulmeville. Not sure if they still inhabit the stream. This would have been at least 65 years ago.

 

[Oregon_OwlII]

Will there be any impact on water temperature?

Not really. Warm water way up into the watershed. They will not be making a trout stream out of this removal.

 

[JG63]

The dam removal movement began where dams were blocking salmon runs.

Then spread to where dams were blocking kayak runs.

One can safely say that wild Atlantic Salmon will never run the Susquehanna in this century

 

[Mike]

One can safely say that wild Atlantic Salmon will never run the Susquehanna in this century

They never did. Lower limit was the Hudson with perhaps an occasional stray in the Delaware.

 

[falcon]

There were a few reports of salmon in the Beaverkill.

 

[tomgamber]

There were a few reports of salmon in the Beaverkill.

Salmon are not native to, nor are they stocked or established in, the Beaverkill River. The Beaverkill River in New York's Catskill Mountains is world-famous strictly as a trout fishery and is widely celebrated as the birthplace of American fly fishing.

If you are looking for salmon in this general region, or if you heard a rumor about salmon on the Beaverkill, the context below clarifies what you might actually be looking for.

Potential Mix-Ups & Nearby Salmon Options

• • The Neversink River Exception: If you heard about catching salmon in the Catskills, it is likely a reference to the nearby Neversink Reservoir and the Neversink River directly above it. The New York DEC stocks landlocked Atlantic Salmon there, and they run up the river during the autumn spawning season. Because landlocked salmon look incredibly similar to brown trout, anglers sometimes confuse the two species
• The NY Salmon River: New York's most famous salmon fishery is the Salmon River in Pulaski, NY (near Lake Ontario). This river features massive annual runs of Chinook, Coho, and Atlantic salmon. It features a tributary named Beaverdam Brook, which is frequently confused with the Beaverkill River by traveling anglers.

per the google

 

[TimMurphy]

They never did. Lower limit was the Hudson with perhaps an occasional stray in the Delaware.

Dear Mike,

I recall reading years ago that the fish commonly referred to as Susquehanna Salmon were actually walleye that were moving to spawn. I do know that walleye will move a long way in a river to find suitable spawning areas. When I lived in Broome County NY an angler caught a walleye in early May that was tagged in PA the previous Fall. The fish was originally tagged near Berwick, and it was caught in Johnson City NY. That's about 75 miles miles!

Regards,

Tim Murphy 🙂

 

[poopdeck]

Day 1 of dam removal was pretty uneventful. All they did was make an equipment ramp down to the creek. Prior to the ramp this was a very constricted steep goat trail lined by boulders. Looks like they hammered the boulders down to make the ramp from the top of dam to the bottom. I’m now wondering what’s next. Are they going to bust a hole on one side and let it drain or go from the middle out? Man I’m loving retirement. Watching others work is the way to do it.

 

[JG63]

They never did. Lower limit was the Hudson with perhaps an occasional stray in the Delaware.

Yes - so why would anyone suggest it in an article?