Dam being built for swimming hole

Demolition is ALWAYS in my playbook...

Mainly because I like to leave things as I found them (you know, the footprints thing) and like to find things as if I was the first person to come across them, as impossible as that is in today's world...

For that reason I hate rock cairns as much as spray paint, worm containers, Y-sticks left in the bank, fire rings or remnants of fires, forts, homemade rock dams and other man-made bull$#!+ in the woods or along streams, lakes, ponds, etc.

Don't leave it behind and tell me it's for someone else to use or admire, get your rocks off (pardon the pun), take a few pics and clean up your F'n mess before you leave...!!

In regards to dams...

There was one dam in particular I came across on a well known Class A that runs though publicly owned property that ran behind some homes whose property DID NOT include the creek. The dam was about 2+feet high and was holding back a lot of water in a very productive little hole.

Every time I fished the creek I'd knock out a section of the dam and when I'd come back, it was fixed and the cycle would continue. Until one day when I saw a canoe down by the water which is beyond bloody ridiculous on this stream.

So I put down my rod and made it's my life's work that day to obliterate the dam rock by rock.

I'm happy to report it's been gone for at least 15+ years so I guess me, the creek and the fish won...
 
Bamboozle said:
Demolition is ALWAYS in my playbook...

Mainly because I like to leave things as I found them (you know, the footprints thing) and like to find things as if I was the first person to come across them, as impossible as that is in today's world...

For that reason I hate rock cairns as much as spray paint, worm containers, Y-sticks left in the bank, fire rings or remnants of fires, forts, homemade rock dams and other man-made bull$#!+ in the woods or along streams, lakes, ponds, etc.

Don't leave it behind and tell me it's for someone else to use or admire, get your rocks off (pardon the pun), take a few pics and clean up your F'n mess before you leave...!!

In regards to dams...

There was one dam in particular I came across on a well known Class A that runs though publicly owned property that ran behind some homes whose property DID NOT include the creek. The dam was about 2+feet high and was holding back a lot of water in a very productive little hole.

Every time I fished the creek I'd knock out a section of the dam and when I'd come back, it was fixed and the cycle would continue. Until one day when I saw a canoe down by the water which is beyond bloody ridiculous on this stream.

So I put down my rod and made it's my life's work that day to obliterate the dam rock by rock.

I'm happy to report it's been gone for at least 15+ years so I guess me, the creek and the fish won...
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Yup.....just leave behind footprints.
 
A dam is one thing but a small stack of rocks should not bother anybody. I won’t waste any thought or effort on them. Now I may use them for rocking skipping target practice but I’m not kicking them over just for the sake of kicking them over.
 
You know what they say you never step foot in the same creek twice. Or something like that. Agree with others go take some bottom rocks out and let the water take care of the rest. If it bothers you.
 
Kids make dams for swimming holes. Maybe the best way to get it to stop would be with knowledge. I wouldn't call PGC or PAFBC but that is just me. The season for swimming is over so the chances of catching the vandals is slim to none. So if you call now there is an officer of an understaffed agency investigating an incident that has almost no chance of being solved. The deputy program was cancelled a few weeks ago so they're probably very busy.
Many say tear the dam out yourself and that is an understandable opinion too. But if cricks are supposed to meander wouldn't tearing the dam out in the middle excite farther straightening? You're kind of dammed if you do,dammed if you dont.
I share the frustration about dams at swimming holes. May 2025 I encountered a large group of Amish boys maybe ten to 15 year olds building a dam to deepen a pool enough to swim. I tried explaining to them why it was wrong to destroy nature miles back on the ANF but got frustrated. I asked myself would it be better if those boys were home playing video games. Better for who?
Sorry I'm not much help on this. Maybe make a YouTube video but if you want to reach Amish kids try Instagram.

I had a conversation with a USGS employee about rock dams within the past few years. He said that out West, they're learning many rock dams built in a well thought out manner can be a good thing for cricks.Hydrology is fascinating science and it wouldn't surprise me to learn we do more harm by tearing out the rock dams.
How high can brown trout jump? Probably high enough to clear any rock dam I've seen when flows are decent.
 
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sarce said:
Is the 18" coming from a law somewhere? Just curious. I thought any alteration of a streambed without permits is illegal.

As for ruining a kids swimming hole, if that's the biggest concern, just kick it down in the fall when it's cold enough that nobody's swimming anymore. Then at least there is fish passage for spawning season.

I run into these all the time on local brookie streams and remove enough that the brookies can pass through. But the other day I dismantled one that was maybe 18" high and then 50 yards upstream was a natural waterfall that was twice as high...I will admit I felt a little silly.
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When I looked into illegal dams years ago in PA, I thought I remembered seeing 18". I could be wrong. Maybe 36" I will look it up.
 
sarce said:
Is the 18" coming from a law somewhere? Just curious. I thought any alteration of a streambed without permits is illegal.

As for ruining a kids swimming hole, if that's the biggest concern, just kick it down in the fall when it's cold enough that nobody's swimming anymore. Then at least there is fish passage for spawning season.

I run into these all the time on local brookie streams and remove enough that the brookies can pass through. But the other day I dismantled one that was maybe 18" high and then 50 yards upstream was a natural waterfall that was twice as high...I will admit I felt a little silly.
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I was way off. Hopefully the Google AI feature is accurate. I do remember Larl Lutz telling us you needed permits for the "wing dams" he was constructing for habitat improvement, and our TU chapter needing permits to install cattle crossings, so a deeper dive may be needed , which I don't have the time for.
"
Permit Criteria for Dams in Pennsylvania
A permit from the PA Department of Environmental Protection depends on where the dam is built and its specific measurements:
    • Built Across a Stream: A permit is required if any one of these three conditions is met:
      • The contributory drainage area is greater than 100 acres.
      • The maximum water depth (height measured from the upstream toe to the top of the dam at maximum storage) is greater than 15 feet.
      • The storage capacity is greater than 50 acre-feet. [1]
    • Not Built Across a Stream (Off-stream): A permit is required if both depth/height (greater than 15 feet) and storage capacity (greater than 50 acre-feet) criteria are met.
 
There are more regs pertaining to dams than what oregon owl posted. Here is more

§ 105.12. Waiver of permit requirements.
(a) Under section 7 of the act (32 P. S. § 693.7), the requirements for a permit are waived for the following structures or activities, regardless of when commenced. If the Department upon complaint or investigation finds that a structure or activity which is eligible for a waiver, has a significant effect upon safety or the protection of life, health, property or the environment, the Department may require the owner of the structure to apply for and obtain a permit under this chapter.

(1) A dam not exceeding 3 feet in height in a stream not exceeding 50 feet in width, except wild trout streams designated by the Fish and Boat Commission.

(2) A water obstruction in a stream or floodway with a drainage area of 100 acres or less. This waiver does not apply to wetlands located in the floodway.
 
Just to update the post - I reached out to my PFBC area fisheries manager, and they are aware of the situation already and have been monitoring it for sometime. I did make a small channel by moving some rocks so fish could move up past it if they couldnt already. I appreciate all the insight and feedback!
 
lycoflyfisher said:
There are more regs pertaining to dams than what oregon owl posted. Here is more

§ 105.12. Waiver of permit requirements.
(a) Under section 7 of the act (32 P. S. § 693.7), the requirements for a permit are waived for the following structures or activities, regardless of when commenced. If the Department upon complaint or investigation finds that a structure or activity which is eligible for a waiver, has a significant effect upon safety or the protection of life, health, property or the environment, the Department may require the owner of the structure to apply for and obtain a permit under this chapter.

(1) A dam not exceeding 3 feet in height in a stream not exceeding 50 feet in width, except wild trout streams designated by the Fish and Boat Commission.

(2) A water obstruction in a stream or floodway with a drainage area of 100 acres or less. This waiver does not apply to wetlands located in the floodway.
Click to expand...
Thanks. That bolded part is important for this discussion.

Continuing to be lazy and not Google it myself, but I think Oregon Owl's regs are talking about dam safety permits rather than construction permits. It reads similar to dam safety requirements in other states that I'm familiar with.

Also curious about any general streambed disturbance (not dams specifically). I used to move rocks around in a tiny creek where I grew up. Never thought about legality of doing so back then, am sure most people don't.
 
Two things...

I think this type of structure would be defined as a "water obstruction," not a dam.

I'm not sure but I also THINK DEP is regulatory agency that oversees permits and compliance in regard to dams, water obstruction and encroachment.
 
A co-worker lives on Rapid Run. The state paid him a visit about a dam/swimming hole that appeared this summer on on his property. Local kids built it and they were made to take it down or face fines.
 
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