From speaking to numerous people over the years who fish there, I think the upper several miles contain a Class A biomass but the PFBC hasn't listed it, which also happens on many other waters across the Commonwealth.
Allenberry Resort To Host Discussion on Yellow Breeches & Stream Bred Trout
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Mikey2006
Well-known member
Yep. And I’d suspect some other sections would be close to class a as well, a few of those sections being way further downstream than many would expect. Writing it off as a stocked stream with small pocket populations of tiny browns is completely misrepresenting the fishery. Any effort to reduce stocking should be celebrated.
It is NOT a place you go to specifically catch large wild fish, nor does it stack up to the major central Pa rivers. But there is a very solid population all the way from the headwaters to well below what the state has listed as lower limit of the natural reproduction section. And that’s despite the fact it gets stocked more than maybe any stream in the state. If, by some miracle, all stocking was ended, at least from allenberry up to the hatchery in huntsdale, it would be the valley’s best wild trout fishery. Considering the state of a lot of our limestoners, it arguably already is
Yeah, I've heard it's got tons of small wild browns basically throughout the majority of the creek.
Why do so many other people's posts on this thread seem to contradict that? And I believe the browns are there in big numbers..
Mikey2006
Well-known member
If you only fish allenberry and other heavily stocked sections close to the parking areas during the spring, you wouldn’t think there were any wild fish over 10 inches in the entire stream. The small head of larger fish that are in there can be incredibly wary during the periods of intense angler pressure. But if you know where to go at the right time of year (and I’m not necessarily talking about private water, most of what I fish on the breeches is public) you can have some good days where you wouldn’t even know it was a stocked stream.
If anyone doubts the presence of a strong population, especially in the stuff below allenberry, wade some of the breeches in late October and November and start counting how many redds you see. It is genuinely insane
JeffP
Well-known member
Certainly seems to be some contradictory views here. The PFC should experiment here rather than Freeman Run. Try nor stocking the Breeches and see what happens. That would be a real experiment but we all know that would never happen.
Mikey2006
Well-known member
Exactly. They won’t experiment on the breeches, or even survey/list the upper reaches as class a because then they would be forced to quit stocking it. The wild fish that are in there get treated as if they don’t exist.
As to why people think it’s not capable of supporting a wild trout fishery throughout most of its length, I honestly couldn’t tell you. I hope it’s not a case of intentionally downplaying the fishery because that’s not even needed. in its current state it really isn’t all that amazing and I wouldn’t recommend people go out of their way and drive more than an hour to fish it. They would be sorely disappointed. However, if we left the wild fish alone and quit stocking over them, it very well could be one of those special places in my opinion
I think the best that can be hoped for would be to designate Sec 1 as protected water and managed for the native population. While it would be awesome to also have Sec 2 so designated, the reality is the YB is viewed as a put and take system, including a successful hatchery operation in YB Anglers and the Huntsdale hatchery. While there is not formal relationship between YB Anglers and CVTU, there is a lot membership that crosses over.
The visitors bureau uses the YB in a lot of its outdoor experience marketing collateral, not to mention the number of guides that are on the YB.
Any time cold water fisheries can be improved, that’s a good thing. I am just not holding out a lot of hope for major changes here.
The visitors bureau uses the YB in a lot of its outdoor experience marketing collateral, not to mention the number of guides that are on the YB.
Any time cold water fisheries can be improved, that’s a good thing. I am just not holding out a lot of hope for major changes here.
Mikey2006
Well-known member
I know nothing will likely ever change on the breeches lol. I just like complaining about it and thinking about what could be
Has anyone gone through the Huntsdale hatchery in recent times?
In the 1990s, I was on a tour of the hatchery. The raceways were completely open to the sun, no shade at all. The PFBC guy told us the water temperature of the effluent in the summer. There was significant warming above the spring water temperature.
A couple of us suggested shading the raceways to reduce warming and he said he would look into that. Was that ever done?
In the 1990s, I was on a tour of the hatchery. The raceways were completely open to the sun, no shade at all. The PFBC guy told us the water temperature of the effluent in the summer. There was significant warming above the spring water temperature.
A couple of us suggested shading the raceways to reduce warming and he said he would look into that. Was that ever done?
Mikey2006
Well-known member
I’m not sure about that, but there are a ton of abandoned raceways up there below where the current hatchery is, those might be the old ones. For some reason I just can’t picture in my head what the new raceways look like despite driving past the hatchery often. But last summer me and a friend took a temp of 49 degrees right where the hatchery outflow enters the breeches, so it seems like it is staying cold
DGC
Active member
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The coloration and condition differences between YBAC stocked browns and Huntsdale stocked browns was considerable when I fished the Breeches from Brandtsville to Huntsdale, which was mainly between 2014 and late 2021.
A YBAC member told me that their trout were frequently mistaken for wild. I specifically asked if YBAC stockers could include the blue eye spot, and he said they did. This does not mean there aren’t also plenty of wild trout, because I believe there are.
Though the Breeches lacks habitat suitable for larger wild trout in good numbers, the temperatures are good to decent depending on where you are, the forage base is very good, and spawning habitat is excellent.
Marinaro seemed to like it, and I learned to as well. Posting, according to a WCO I spoke to around 2018, claimed a little more access every year.
It has pretty good bug life for dry fly fans like me. It wasn’t difficult to find midging risers in January. These were holdovers, but I didn’t mind. They were tough to fool.
The Heritage section was where I fished the least. I think I caught one trout there that looked wild, and no juveniles. Upstream, there were plenty of little ones.
A YBAC member told me that their trout were frequently mistaken for wild. I specifically asked if YBAC stockers could include the blue eye spot, and he said they did. This does not mean there aren’t also plenty of wild trout, because I believe there are.
Though the Breeches lacks habitat suitable for larger wild trout in good numbers, the temperatures are good to decent depending on where you are, the forage base is very good, and spawning habitat is excellent.
Marinaro seemed to like it, and I learned to as well. Posting, according to a WCO I spoke to around 2018, claimed a little more access every year.
It has pretty good bug life for dry fly fans like me. It wasn’t difficult to find midging risers in January. These were holdovers, but I didn’t mind. They were tough to fool.
The Heritage section was where I fished the least. I think I caught one trout there that looked wild, and no juveniles. Upstream, there were plenty of little ones.
Mikey2006
Well-known member
They stock some very good looking fish.
Upon first glance the fish could pass as wild but it’s clearly not once you notice the irregular spot pattern. I’ve also noticed a lot of the club stockers gave this weird purple/pink coloration on their spots as opposed to normal red spots. I don’t see many stockers with eye spots but this one had faint remnants of one and it’s cheek was overall very blue
Bamboozle
Well-known member
I've fished up there a lot and while there are wild fish, I've heard the "contains a Class A biomass" anecdotal evidence about a lot of streams including the Breeches. In many cases, further research has explained the "why not." Sometimes it is the difficulty in determining whether a fish is truly wild.
A similar situation delayed the Class A listing of Section 08 (former Heritage) stretch of the Little Lehigh. There were so many hatchery escapees, stockers from adjacent sections and holdovers that a simple PAFF "stocked or wild" visual test wasn't cutting it with the PFBC Fisheries Biologists.
When this delay was occurring, I was told on a phone call (possibly with Mike) that this confusion was holding up the listing and when in doubt, the only reliable way to make the wild determination is from scale samples.
Rather than speculate, the easiest thing to do is contact the Area 7 AFM and ask when the last survey on the Breeches was done and what were the results.
I have to believe it may have been awhile on Section 01 & 02, but more recently on Section 03 especially and Section 04.
Spring water in that region is about 52 degrees, so it's hard to imagine what made the water 49F in the summer. Are they using chillers now?
Mikey2006
Well-known member
I’m going off of what my friend said his thermometer read. It wasn’t one of the new digital ones, so there could be some error. But it felt colder to the touch than water from upper Big Spring. Like unnaturally cold. My feet went numb through my wading boots
Cold water is good!
