Allenberry Resort To Host Discussion on Yellow Breeches & Stream Bred Trout

My former dentist who was in Stroud Township was a member of one of the Pocono club fishing "destinations," possibly the Pohoqualine Fish Association. When we talked fishing (which was all the time), he told me had a VERY limited amount of time to trout fish and he wasn't particularly enamored with spending the day chasing 4" gemmies on some little stream.

For those reasons, belonging to a club made sense to him.

I always think about people like him who can afford to be members of places like that. Many have similar reasons for belonging to clubs whether membership appeals to the rest of us or not. For these reasons, I don't think Allenberry or similar places are going anywhere soon.

I also doubt Allenberry's section, Section 03 has an ice cube's chance in hell of ever providing a suitable & sustainable wild trout population that would provide enough "good fishing" (meaning numbers & size) to entice guests.

What they will do going forward, fish-wise is beyond me, but I can't believe they would give up the attraction of the stream or fly fishing for trout. For that reason, it seems inevitable to me they will continue stocking because people that want this type of fishing experience will happily pony up for the opportunity.

I don't believe having a limited amount of angler's fishing during a limited amount of time is a deal breaker either to folks that are looking for something different than fishing for trout on open water. You just have to make a reservation and wait your turn which isn't a whole lot different than going out to eat or teeing off for a round of golf.

Then there the geography...

Southcentral PA as a trout fishing destination is FAR from what many folks would consider ideal. The famous limestoners are tough & crowded, the other Class A streams are small and nothing to write home about and the rest of the streams are stocked.

It's not my cup of tea, but Allenberry with a a mess of stocked fish and other amenities may be right up the alley of folks coming to the area to fish for trout.

We'll see...
 
JimKennedy said:
That’s an expensive proposition. Expect to pay $8-$10 for a single 12 in hatchery trout. Plant 1000 in a season and you are dumping money into the stream. And to be what it was, you really need 2000 or more trout
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I don't know what the acreage is within the Allenberry portion of the stream or how many trout were being stocked, but as a different example, many people are well satisfied when a stream section is stocked with a rate of 100 trout per acre two times in four months during the late winter/spring C&R period in Delayed Harvest Areas. (And at that stocking rate and higher, up to 150 trout per acre 2X for a total of 300 stockies, wild brown trout populations have expanded to Class A equivalents in some limestone influenced and freestone DH Areas).
 
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Letort said:
They somehow got an Orvis endorsed lodge designation, so it must matter to them on some level.

They have chased the Playhouse off the property.

Not really sure what the attraction is to Allenberry at this point. Food and lodging is in my opinion, meh.
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I would not be surprised to see the whole place leveled and a housing development there in 10 years or less.
 
Nocktavius said:
Happy to see a private entity doing what the PFBC couldn’t, returning a heritage trout stream to a primarily stream bred population.
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Dear Nocktavius,

It was a Heritage trout stream because between the PFBC and the Yellow Breeches Anglers Association they put 12000 stockers a year in it for 50 years. It was never much of a wild trout stream once you got below the Holly Pike and will never be one. Caddisflyer nailed the ultimate outcome for Allenberry and the Yellow Breeches in his post above.

Regards,

Tim Murphy 😉
 
I was unable to make it, but was talking to someone who did attend. Said there was about 60 people, which seems like a strong turnout.

Speaker was from PSU, who presented a very scientific approach to the subject. Bottom line, said to stop stocking brown trout in the YB and let the native strain survive. My impression from the conversation was that the speaker could design a clock, but would struggle to tell you what time it is.

Short answer - waste of time.
 
Letort said:
I was unable to make it, but was talking to someone who did attend. Said there was about 60 people, which seems like a strong turnout.

Speaker was from PSU, who presented a very scientific approach to the subject. Bottom line, said to stop stocking brown trout in the YB and let the native strain survive. My impression from the conversation was that the speaker could design a clock, but would struggle to tell you what time it is.

Short answer - waste of time.
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I see - “let it go” and hope that the hatches and forage base comes back somehow and the wild trout will flourish … scientific indeed
 
Reading this conversation, if any of the points above are true and im sure some are....

They would have been better off just leaving it open to the public,allow the pfbc to stock it, touting it as a top destination stream in PA and let their customer base deal with the public.

People obviously found it good enough to fish in crowded conditions.
 
I might be in the minority but I enjoy having the option to fish a heavily stocked stream. Wild/native streams are great, and preferred, but sometimes you just want to get out and catch lots of fish, pellet pigs or not. If youre in the camp of wanting to introduce more people to fly fishing, especially young people, its important in my opinion to have streams where the chances of success are relatively high.
 
Encoded said:
I might be in the minority but I enjoy having the option to fish a heavily stocked stream. Wild/native streams are great, and preferred, but sometimes you just want to get out and catch lots of fish, pellet pigs or not. If youre in the camp of wanting to introduce more people to fly fishing, especially young people, its important in my opinion to have streams where the chances of success are relatively high.
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I'm with you here. Blue lining for natives is definitely the best, but it also requires a lot of work and a lot of time.

Taking my wife and kids to fish with me on a heavily stocked stream with easy parking nearby is a no brainer. Add in that getting some fish (big ones, no less) into the net makes it fun for them, and it just makes way more sense than dragging them on a 4-mile hike into a rhododendron-choked wilderness stream to hopefully stick a 7-inch native.
 
Encoded said:
I might be in the minority but I enjoy having the option to fish a heavily stocked stream. Wild/native streams are great, and preferred, but sometimes you just want to get out and catch lots of fish, pellet pigs or not. If youre in the camp of wanting to introduce more people to fly fishing, especially young people, its important in my opinion to have streams where the chances of success are relatively high.
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Not all stocked trout streams are created the same, and the better ones that act more like "real trout streams" provide better angling opportunities, but......

Wild trout streams provide a higher catch rater per hour than a stocked trout experience. I didn't make this up. Mike has provided this information before. My own fishing history backs this up, too. This means that it is easier to catch an abundance of fish on wild trout streams as opposed to stockie streams.
 
troutbert said:
What happened to the hatches and the forage base in the Yellow Breeches?
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TB - I’m speaking for the Allenberry stretch in particular - Darters, crayfish, and even nymphs took a huge hit when the lake silt sand and gravel washed down through The Run and into the main stem of the YB - the small dam near the Tennis court stopped a lot of that drainage and allowed it to settle in between the rock bottom that used to be there - it looks like paved cobblestone for quite a ways down to the dam - you can’t even turn rocks over to try to find crayfish - gonna be a tough sell for “wild trout management” unless they can somehow wait for a high water event to get a backhoe in there to mitigate the accumulation - trouble is, any high water events bring mud and silt from twenty miles up the valley - so there’s that
 
jifigz said:
Wild trout streams provide a higher catch rater per hour than a stocked trout experience. I didn't make this up. Mike has provided this information before. My own fishing history backs this up, too. This means that it is easier to catch an abundance of fish on wild trout streams as opposed to stockie streams.
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Not doubting you at all but I'm trying to figure out how that's possible. Would be interested to learn more
 
Nocktavius said:
Happy to see a private entity doing what the PFBC couldn’t, returning a heritage trout stream to a primarily stream bred population.
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The Yellow Breeches has been mainly a stocked stream for as long as I can remember... well over 60 years. I have old photos of my great grandparents with stringers of stocked fish probably in the early 1950s. If there is any kind of "heritage" it is as a heavily stocked creek. The Huntsdale hatchery being right on the creek accounted for a lot of it's popularity, again as a stocked creek with many big fish. The wild trout population is fairly low and the wild fish are mostly all small. Most of it likely does not even have potential as a wild trout stream in my opinion.
 
jifigz said:
How many miles of wild trout waters are there on the Breeches?
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Dear jifigz,

Not many. Honestly, there is a large trout hatchery in Huntsville about 6 or 8 miles upriver from Allenberry. There are wild trout in that section, but they tend to be small. Some of the small ones may well be hatchery escapees, but there are wild trout in the upper reaches. Above the hatchery it is pretty much a 3- to 8-foot-wide meadow stream. Below the hatchery down to Boiling Springs near Allenberry it flows through largely wooded sections surrounded by long-time streamside homes.

Just about every year-round stream in the Cumberland Valley is a limestone spring creek sort of creek. The larger ones like Mountain Creek start out as freestone streams coming of the South Mountain but before they hit the Yellow Breeches they get limestone influenced. The smaller ones probably provide refuge and potential spawning areas for the Yellow Breeches, even if they aren't noted as trout streams. The problem is that the valley is getting built up year over year and something is going to give. The development in the main valley floor is extensive with no end in sight.

Hopefully guys like JG63 and Caddisflyer who are life-long CV residents will chime in and offer their thoughts.

Regards,

Tim Murphy 🙂
 
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