Troutbitten's Airing of Grievances

The Rodfather

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 25, 2023
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296
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Palmyra, PA
Listening to the Troutbitten Airing of Grievances episode got me thinking about my own annual grievance, and it has nothing to do with fly patterns, rod lengths, or the poor IPA selection at the pub I went to last Thursday.

My grievance is with the Pennsylvania Fish & Boat Commission's continued unwillingness to seriously address stream access despite repeatedly hearing from anglers that it's a top priority.

Over the years, PFBC surveys and public feedback have consistently shown that anglers want more places to fish. Access is one of the most common concerns raised whenever the public is asked what improvements they'd like to see. Yet it seems like every time there's an opportunity to invest resources, the focus shifts back to expanding stocking programs. Don't get me wrong - I understand the value of stocked trout fisheries and I know they serve an important role for many anglers. While I wholeheartedly disagree with them stocking over wild trout, that is a story for another thread. What frustrates me most is the blatant disconnect between what constituents say they want and where priorities end up. When survey results repeatedly indicate that access is a major concern, why does it seem to receive so little attention compared to stocking expansions, additional stocking events, or new put-and-take opportunities?

Access improvements aren't always easy - I get that. They require landowner relationships, easements, acquisitions, and long-term planning. But that's precisely why they deserve sustained attention. Every new access site benefits anglers year after year, regardless of whether a stream is stocked, wild, or somewhere in between.

I would love to see PFBC devote the same level of energy toward expanding public fishing access that it devotes toward finding new ways to put more trout in the water. More fish are great, but more places for the public to legally and comfortably fish seems like the more fundamental need.

That's my grievance for the year.

How about you all?

The Rodfather
Engagement Czar and Conservation Chair
Dauphin County League of Chubsmen

 
I agree with you, would like to see more access obtained whether that be through acquisition, easements, or agreements.

I would imagine that stocked trout generate lots of license sales for PFBC which in turn serves as its funding base. I know they've added the voluntary permits as well for various projects that people may be interested in, maybe a public access one could be created? I personally wouldn't mind paying a little bit extra to contribute to fund like that.
 
They cannot take property away from rightful owners. The greatest bottleneck to obtaining easements is finding and convincing owners to enter into them, not finding the money. The process is slow like anything involving legal transfers and state govt. What we can do is assist PFBC by finding the landowners and get them warm to the idea of an easement. Have you made a recommendation to them? Identifie landowners who are open to an easement?
Consider this before being so harsh on them.
 
"The greatest bottleneck to obtaining easements is finding and convincing owners to enter into them, not finding the money."
Has been working in Erie County for 20 years.
It started with nothing back then. easements were not even an option but sportsmen persisted and gathered together.
IMHO the problem statewide is the lack of a coalition of sportsmen pushing an agenda that could work. Too much back stabbing and anti-whatever to gather large numbers and push for an issue.
 
Besides all the stocking crap, I’d like to fish against a nice big fat pile of logs. Haha. Not gonna lie, the streams I’ve found so far here in PA don’t offer up much in the way of a nice soft bottom and big gnarly log jam.
 
I just finished up my fishing trip in Wisconsin (when I get home next week, a write-up of the trip will happen) and Wisconsin's stream access laws are amazing.

Yes, in Pennsylvania, stream access is what needs to be improved. That's where the lion's share of their focus needs to be.
 
My biggest grievance has got to be getting high holed. Last week I drove 90 minutes to fish a central pa river and got on the water at 6:30am. Only car in the lot. Hiked in about a quarter mile or so to the section of water I wanted to fish and had been fishing for no more than 15 minutes when these two guys get in the water about 20 yards below me. They then proceeded to walk up to where I was, asked me how the fishing was, and then continued walking around me before stopping no less than 30 yards above me, at which point they started casting. Based on their appearance, they didn’t look all that inexperienced either. Seemed to me like they knew exactly what they were doing.

Mind you, there’s like 2 miles of water in this section of river to spread out on and we were the only people out there. I just said screw this and got out of the water and got back in probably 50 yards above them and fished quickly for the next hour to avoid potentially playing leapfrog. Tired of bs like this
 
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My biggest grievance has got to be getting high holed. Last week I drove 90 minutes to fish a central pa river and got on the water at 6:30am. Only car in the lot. Hiked in about a quarter mile or so to the section of water I wanted to fish and had been fishing for no more than 15 minutes when these two guys get in the water about 20 yards below me. They then proceeded to walk up to where I was, asked me how the fishing was, and then continued walking around me before stopping no less than 30 yards above me, at which point they started casting. Based on their appearance, they didn’t look all that inexperienced either. Seemed to me like they knew exactly what they were doing.

Mind you, there’s like 2 miles of water in this section of river to spread on and we were the only people out there. I just said screw this and got out of the water and got back in probably 50 yards above them and fished quickly for the next hour to avoid potentially playing leapfrog. Tired of bs like this
Yeah, that leapfrogging is no way to fish. It becomes similar to competition fishing.
 
My biggest grievance has got to be getting high holed. Last week I drove 90 minutes to fish a central pa river and got on the water at 6:30am. Only car in the lot. Hiked in about a quarter mile or so to the section of water I wanted to fish and had been fishing for no more than 15 minutes when these two guys get in the water about 20 yards below me. They then proceeded to walk up to where I was, asked me how the fishing was, and then continued walking around me before stopping no less than 30 yards above me, at which point they started casting. Based on their appearance, they didn’t look all that inexperienced either. Seemed to me like they knew exactly what they were doing.

Mind you, there’s like 2 miles of water in this section of river to spread out on and we were the only people out there. I just said screw this and got out of the water and got back in probably 50 yards above them and fished quickly for the next hour to avoid potentially playing leapfrog. Tired of bs like this
That’s been happening to me way more often the last few years. Pxsses me off more than all other pet peeves combined.
 
My biggest grievance are Internet fishing celebrities that indirectly & directly cause a multitude of problems...

In regards to the PFBC doing nothing regarding access...

Besides money obtained from permits, grants and the Voluntary Public Access and Habitat Incentive Program (VPA-HIP); the PFBC has two places where YOU can donate money to be used SPECIFICALLY for access. The Conservation Acquisition Partnership or CAP program that I have been donating to for 20 years.

You can also make a donation through the HuntFishPA website, however donations made there don't receive matching funds.
 
I just finished up my fishing trip in Wisconsin (when I get home next week, a write-up of the trip will happen) and Wisconsin's stream access laws are amazing.

Yes, in Pennsylvania, stream access is what needs to be improved. That's where the lion's share of their focus needs to be.
what would be required is changing the laws-not the job of PFBC- on river access and who owns the riverbed. That's a tough one as it "takes" rights away from people. People on this forum own land and have expressed they don't allow access. I understand why.
 
My biggest grievance are Internet fishing celebrities that indirectly & directly cause a multitude of problems...

In regards to the PFBC doing nothing regarding access...

Besides money obtained from permits, grants and the Voluntary Public Access and Habitat Incentive Program (VPA-HIP); the PFBC has two places where YOU can donate money to be used SPECIFICALLY for access. The Conservation Acquisition Partnership or CAP program that I have been donating to for 20 years.

You can also make a donation through the HuntFishPA website, however donations made there don't receive matching funds.
gees, I didn't know about this formal program and I googled for something at one point. But, money isn't the main issue. PFBC needs cooperation from people or organizations to identify and get landowners on board. Easement on the J happened because the LJRA did the groundwork. PFBC provided the resources- legal and $. Owners are more likely to engage in a conversation with local organizations or people than the state.
Easements are a tough sell. you give up control and value of the land.
 
My biggest grievance has got to be getting high holed. Last week I drove 90 minutes to fish a central pa river and got on the water at 6:30am. Only car in the lot. Hiked in about a quarter mile or so to the section of water I wanted to fish and had been fishing for no more than 15 minutes when these two guys get in the water about 20 yards below me. They then proceeded to walk up to where I was, asked me how the fishing was, and then continued walking around me before stopping no less than 30 yards above me, at which point they started casting. Based on their appearance, they didn’t look all that inexperienced either. Seemed to me like they knew exactly what they were doing.

Mind you, there’s like 2 miles of water in this section of river to spread out on and we were the only people out there. I just said screw this and got out of the water and got back in probably 50 yards above them and fished quickly for the next hour to avoid potentially playing leapfrog. Tired of bs like this
I would have loved 30 yards. A couple of weeks ago on the J some old guy and his son dropped in 10 yards below me- out of town dealer license plate frame told the story. I did what you did- just left. I used to get real Po'ed about these instances. Then one time I met back up with the guy who encroached on me earlier and he started talking to me saying he gave me lots of space as not to crowd. It dawned on me that he really thought he gave me space. I asked where he was from and he came from a more densely populated part with fewer fishing opportunities. One person's idea of space is different from another. Sometimes people just don't understand local norms.
 
gees, I didn't know about this formal program and I googled for something at one point. But, money isn't the main issue. PFBC needs cooperation from people or organizations to identify and get landowners on board. Easement on the J happened because the LJRA did the groundwork. PFBC provided the resources- legal and $. Owners are more likely to engage in a conversation with local organizations or people than the state.
Easements are a tough sell. you give up control and value of the land.

Easements are a tough sell and to be honest, bad behavior makes it even a tougher sell...

However my point was only to dispel the belief that the PFBC doesn't care or does nothing positive in regards to access.
 
Easements are a tough sell and to be honest, bad behavior makes it even a tougher sell...

However my point was only to dispel the belief that the PFBC doesn't care or does nothing positive in regards to access.
I knew that was your point. I wanted to underscore to others that is the bottleneck and role sportsman can play in getting easements done.
 
Real estate has become insanely expensive in recent years. The days of buying inexpensive rural or forested land are over.
 
what would be required is changing the laws-not the job of PFBC- on river access and who owns the riverbed. That's a tough one as it "takes" rights away from people. People on this forum own land and have expressed they don't allow access. I understand why.
Okay, and finding easements. In Wisconsin, easements are everywhere. Yes, they have a "wet feet law," but they also have lots of places to access the streams. In that regard, I wish PA had easements like Wisconsin does.
 
I put just as much blame on the fishing Public as I do the PFBC.
I do not want that CIRCUS in my yard.
Mabee if they treated it better it wouldn't be so hard to convince people to let the mob in.
Lost alot of access up Erie way thanks to slob fishermen.
 
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