wildtrout2
Well-known member
Right, because there are a lot of opening day fishermen who only fish a few days out of the year. They don't fish often enough to become skilled fishermen.
Time to rattle the sabers!
- Thread starter FishTales1
- Start date
nymphingmaniac
Well-known member
I don't disagree with what you wrote and appreciate your continue passion on this matter. Thank you. I'll respond to this
" it appears that the PFBC continues to only recognize hatchery trout in their marketing promotions leading up to trout season."
I believe license sales indicate the large majority are people fishing for stocked trout.
What is the participation rate of the wild trout voluntary permit? I doubt is even 20% among the people on this website. As I have written, I contribute because it sends a message of my preference and support of the program- not that I agree with all decisions made.
To have fair comparison though there should be the equivalent optional permit for enhancing stocked waters. Then compare the numbers willing to chip in for WT vs stocked.
If your point is that PFBC have two marketing campaigns, one for stocked and one for wild trout fishing, sure. But given the resources for one marketing push, and the recent release of stocking schedules, focusing on stocking is good marketing.
nymphingmaniac
Well-known member
And we wonder why people think FF are snobs. It's not important to be a skilled fisherman or woman. It is important that they enjoy the activity- an activity in many cases involve family and tradition. A proportion of these casual fishermen become dedicated fisherman and members of organizations like TU, LJRA etc . Its a pipeline
I used to think this as well. But why cant warm water fishing be a pipeline to wild trout fishing as well? Promote the fishing that the good lord gave us with a little help from science and conservationists. It seems to me that stocked trout fishing and especially opening day creates a carnival mentality that is not why most of us fish.
I have to admit some hypocrisy here. Our family made money selling hot dogs along the banks of Middle Creek!
I have to admit some hypocrisy here. Our family made money selling hot dogs along the banks of Middle Creek!
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One might readily agree with the logic behind the above comment, but the angler use and harvest studies on stocked trout streams 1988-1992 were pretty darn consistent during opening day, opening week, and during following the inseason stockings. In spite of the fact that more trout were being stocked during that time period than are being stocked today, on any given day, 70% of the anglers went fishless…harvested no fish. C&R anglers represented 10% of the anglers on the streams based on the interviews. Interviews and angler counts were done 12 hrs per day for opening day and nine the days thereafter. Likewise for inseason stocking dates and the following nine days. C&R is much more common today!
Do not misinterpret what I said. I did not claim that all 70% of the anglers were less skilled fishermen; I said that on any given day 70% went fishless, meaning that for some? many? anglers there were probably inconsistent results. Additionally, the average harvest rate was 1 trout per trip and the average trip length was 3.0-3.2 hrs. As an aside, the avg trip length during the wild trout angler use and harvest study was about 2.8 hrs, so trip lengths for stocked and wild trout are not much different. As a rule of thumb, therefore, I just use 3.0 hrs as a trip length in Pa when making calculations that require such info.
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And I think it’s also because that environment amplifies combat fishing. Big divide between the haves (the aggressive ones who have at least some skill) dominate the combined respectful and lesser skilled anglers. That is why many
Come home without fish.
Come home without fish.
I bought a wild trout permit every year ... Until this year. Since the PFBC is deciding to not value wild fish as they should, I cutoff my donation to that "program."
Nocktavius
Well-known member
Problem is trout stocking hasn’t been profitable in PA for nearly a decade. The hatcheries are hemorrhaging money faster than NZ mud snails from their poorly maintained raceways. I’ll give you that “license sales indicate the large majority are people fishing for stocked trout” but those people are also costing us more money than they’re providing so why should we continue to support this practice? Tradition? Is that why they changed the opening day of rifle to Saturday and screwed over entire local economies in the PA wilds?
Also nobody buys the stupid wild trout permit because the fish are WILD. They exist largely, in spite of the efforts of PFBC rather than because of them. Why would I give an organization that I already despise an extra 10$? You’ll never get clear numbers out of that comparison
The financial imbalance of the stocking program has been highlighted here many times, and it is a good argument the cessation or reduction of the program. However, I am not sure money matters. It seems many things done by the government aren't financially viable, yet things continue to exist and be funded.
When I purchased the $10 wild trout permit, I was hoping the money would be used for securing lands, habitat restoration, etc. I figured I could spare $10 and put my good faith in where the money would go.
Nocktavius
Well-known member
What they ought to do is make it an either/or situation. I’ll buy the wild trout permit and agree not to fish in stocked trout waters if you don’t also make me pay for the tramp stamp as well.
tomgamber
Well-known member
here is how the googler explains it.
Money from the Pennsylvania trout permit/stamp ($9.97 - $14.97) goes directly to the Pennsylvania Fish and Boat Commission (PFBC) to fund trout stocking programs, habitat improvement, and fishery management. These funds support raising trout in hatcheries, stream restoration, and purchasing materials for in-stream habitat improvements.
Key Details on Where Funds Go:
Money from the Pennsylvania trout permit/stamp ($9.97 - $14.97) goes directly to the Pennsylvania Fish and Boat Commission (PFBC) to fund trout stocking programs, habitat improvement, and fishery management. These funds support raising trout in hatcheries, stream restoration, and purchasing materials for in-stream habitat improvements.
Key Details on Where Funds Go:
- Trout Stocking: Funds are used to raise and stock millions of trout in streams and lakes across Pennsylvania.
- Habitat Management: Money supports projects that improve stream habitats, such as installing wooden habitat structures, removing barriers (culverts), and enhancing water quality.
- Fisheries Conservation: Funds support overall trout fishery management, including the enhancement of wild trout waters and, for optional permits, specifically the "Wild Trout & Enhanced Waters" program.
- Operational Support: Because the PFBC is a user-funded agency, these permit fees are crucial for maintaining trout-related programs, as the agency receives no PA General Fund tax revenue.
Nocktavius
Well-known member
If the hatcheries operate in the red, then I have a difficult time believing the funds go anywhere but there. If you have a roof that’s leaking, you’re not going to start cracking away on a kitchen renovation.
dudemanspecial
Well-known member
Clearly you haven't met my wife....
Sharknado5
Active member
- Joined
- Apr 28, 2017
- Messages
- 196
I wonder what this means, exactly--
Nocktavius
Well-known member
How I imagine PFBC “protection” for wild trout fisheries would go
Attachments
Sharknado5
Active member
- Joined
- Apr 28, 2017
- Messages
- 196
From Afishinado on PFF in 2019
Voluntary Wild Trout & Enhanced Waters Permit
Annual Permit Cost: $25 plus $1.90 vendor fee
This permit will be used to benefit wild trout and will not be used on stocked trout programs or projects.
Funds will be used to:
• Support projects to upgrade the quality of a trout fishery that results in an increase of the stream’s classification (Example: Class B to Class A)
• Improve in-stream habitat, such as adding large woody debris or limestone sand dosing for acidic streams
• Fund gill lice research on wild Brook Trout
• Leverage other funding to support removal of culvert blockage work
• Support efforts to maintain and improve Pennsylvania’s Best Wild Trout Fishing Waters
• Help prevent the spread of invasive species through signage and public education
• Develop a climate change strategy for wild trout
• Mitigate the impacts from hemlock declines/loss of shading for
coldwater streams
Link to source >
Voluntary Wild Trout & Enhanced Waters Permit
Annual Permit Cost: $25 plus $1.90 vendor fee
This permit will be used to benefit wild trout and will not be used on stocked trout programs or projects.
Funds will be used to:
• Support projects to upgrade the quality of a trout fishery that results in an increase of the stream’s classification (Example: Class B to Class A)
• Improve in-stream habitat, such as adding large woody debris or limestone sand dosing for acidic streams
• Fund gill lice research on wild Brook Trout
• Leverage other funding to support removal of culvert blockage work
• Support efforts to maintain and improve Pennsylvania’s Best Wild Trout Fishing Waters
• Help prevent the spread of invasive species through signage and public education
• Develop a climate change strategy for wild trout
• Mitigate the impacts from hemlock declines/loss of shading for
coldwater streams
Link to source >
Nocktavius
Well-known member
From Afishinado on PFF in 2019
Voluntary Wild Trout & Enhanced Waters Permit
Annual Permit Cost: $25 plus $1.90 vendor fee
This permit will be used to benefit wild trout and will not be used on stocked trout programs or projects.
Funds will be used to:
• Support projects to upgrade the quality of a trout fishery that results in an increase of the stream’s classification (Example: Class B to Class A)
• Improve in-stream habitat, such as adding large woody debris or limestone sand dosing for acidic streams
• Fund gill lice research on wild Brook Trout
• Leverage other funding to support removal of culvert blockage work
• Support efforts to maintain and improve Pennsylvania’s Best Wild Trout Fishing Waters
• Help prevent the spread of invasive species through signage and public education
• Develop a climate change strategy for wild trout
• Mitigate the impacts from hemlock declines/loss of shading for
coldwater streams
Link to source >
These are all things they already should have been doing. This reads like, “we’re the fish stocking committee, but pay us extra money and we’ll actually take care of the waterways”.
What an absolutely worthless organization
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Sharknado5
Active member
- Joined
- Apr 28, 2017
- Messages
- 196
So they're going to cut trees, plant trees, do some culvert work and put up signs. And develop strategies.
Anyone see much evidence of any of this? Planting replacement forests for the dying hemlocks? Mitigate impacts of global warnings on wild trout? Chillers on trout streams? Signage about
Invasive browns?
Didn’t they just put in a new research facility to replace an aging one? I think I read this in the news somewhere maybe Pennlive?
Invasive browns?
Didn’t they just put in a new research facility to replace an aging one? I think I read this in the news somewhere maybe Pennlive?
