The Singularity is Here

[Sylvaneous]

ANyway, I don't know how to do this stuff on my computer for here, but there's a Troutbitten video of tying a hair jig, like an actual, but small hair jig for "fly fishing" for trout.
I tried to screen capture a Berkley Power Bait Max LIl'Trooper tiny crawfish immitation. Threading a bait body onto a small jig head will now be fly tying.
I'm absolutely no purist. I fish spinners, rapalas and tiny rubber crawfish jigs (they just don't happen to be Berkley MaxScent. But that may change soon). I just don't call it anything related to fly fishing. Maybe cane poling would be close if I dap such immitations on the end of one of my Euro rods. Heck, I might just run a length of mono through my guides and tie of off on the reel seat. It'd be almost Tenkara then.
If this is fly fishing, don't bat an eye when I'm seen using a J-5 rapala or a tiny X-rap on non fly fishing only waters. The hook/hooks and the gear may be disqualifying, but as far as fly fishing goes, the technique is closer to Bill Dance than Vince Marinaro.
Syl

 

[Cougarbaby]

Absolutely, fly fishing is my preferred method but I use all methods, you'll see me running Rapalas on the Clarion,Youghegeny ,bait fishing on stocked streams,but on the little J, spring,class A it's fly rod only 4 Me ,why hinder yourself I'm out to catch and have fun 👍

 

[Cougarbaby]

And tight lining streamers is a blast

 

[gfenlikestolosepasswords]

I haven't liked the direction of fly fishing since shortly after I figured it out.

Euronymphs were never anything more than tiny little jigs, anyways.

Afish will be along shortly to mock my propellers, I'm sure, but I still feel like there's more legitimacy to them than this crap.

 

[Bamboozle]

It ain't my thing, but in all seriousness, what's the difference between stuff like that and a Clouser or Woolly Bugger besides the pre-weighted hook and its shape??

 

[troutbert]

I tried to screen capture a Berkley Power Bait Max LIl'Trooper tiny crawfish immitation. Threading a bait body onto a small jig head will now be fly tying.

This would be against the rules to use in fly fishing only areas.

 

[Sylvaneous]

It ain't my thing, but in all seriousness, what's the difference between stuff like that and a Clouser or Woolly Bugger besides the pre-weighted hook and its shape??

There's a bluring of lines, then there's using hair jigs on "fly" gear. Let's not pretend. A steelhead spinning rig would be just as legit and maybe more effective.

 

[Sylvaneous]

This would be against the rules to use in fly fishing only areas.

...and then so should all the plastic streamer heads, Lively-Legz, and any plastic printed material that goes on flies (that's a bit of an extension, but it's in a same vein) jAlso, any punched-out material like prefab foam bodies and the Chuck Kraft ultra suede parts. And not that I'm against that. Lets just be real, a molded facsimile is just that. I'm just not a big fan of Bull$#it.

 

[PaScoGi]

Ive been saying this for years regarding the direction of fly fishing.

But, I will defend Dom and his crew. Dom is a great conservationist and does a lot to teach guys how to catch trout. His website, podcast, and YouTube channel are by far the best educational resources any trout angler could use, bait or fly casting. He also advocates for protecting wild trout. He doesn't look down on spin anglers and (to me) seems to just want to keep certain PA streams wild and not stocked. I think we can all get behind that messaging.

But, a separate issue (not regarding Dom or this video), is certain fly anglers I run into on the streams in PA look down upon spin anglers and think fly fishing is somehow more ethical. These same fly anglers, a lot of them TU members or PA State Employees, are fishing 2 fly rigs and some even 3 fly rigs. They can't read a hatch to save their lives and have to resort to snaring trout with a line of flies and "hoping" the trout "take" one of them when all they are really doing is snaring trout. They also have size 4 articulated streamers, yet they criticize spin anglers for tossing out rapalas.

It's time for fly fishers to admit they are basically spin fishing with more expensive equipment. Just has been my position over the past few years since 18 foot 4x leaders have become the norm to catch trout, yet the same fluorocarbon 4 pound test line I have on my spin rod is not permitted?

 

[poopdeck]

What I hate is a 15 minute video to tie a hair jig. I was able to knock it down to about 30 seconds to get the idea. My verdict… who cares. There’s a lot of not really fly fishing going on out there already. Maybe it needs a cool sounding name like eurostreaming, sankara, or technical depth fishing to be accepted by the tweed gang. It’s just fishing to me. Others can give it a label and a place in their angling hierarchy.

 

[Bamboozle]

When I notice a how to video lasts three times longer thant it takes me to tie the fly being presented...

I go back to looking at pictures and recipes...

 

[JeffK]

I have been a jig fisherman for decades now and love tying and fishing jigs mostly with spin tackle. Spending time in NC and IL exposed me to serious crappie and smallie jig tyers who had many things to teach trout fishermen. When water is high and muddy I prefer to use jigs with spinning tackle than struggling with fly tackle. Dry fly conditions aren't always there and I am not fly or die.

Fly guys can get a little snooty. Back in the 90's I was fishing an all-tackle special regs area in the winter with 1/64 oz jigs and light spinning tackle. The fly guys were giving me heat and checking my line to check that I didn't have bait. Then I noticed that they were slinging buggers with tungsten cones that weighed about 1/8 oz. They didn't like it when mentioned they were using heavier lures than I did. I later got into a ruckus with these guys because I built a fly rod with single foot guides and fished it in a fly zone. They claimed that fly rods needed snake guide to be legal. Called the CO and fortunately he sided with me. These days few people would argue against a fly rod with single foot guides so things do change. I am 90% a fly guy, but some purists can put a damper on things.

I don't really feel a jig is a fly and don't fish them in fly only water, but I don't see much difference between a jig and a cone head streamer/bugger. I also draw the line on Otter's eggs - they just are flies.

 

[Nymph-wristed]

Give your balls a tug 😉 Tom Rosenbauer will be doing videos about it in two years and then it will be fly fishing.

IMHO it's as much a fly as the Jerk Changer gracing the cover of Fly Fisherman magazine 😀

 

[dudemanspecial]

Give your balls a tug 😉 Tom Rosenbauer will be doing videos about it in two years and then it will be fly fishing.

IMHO it's as much a fly as the Jerk Changer gracing the cover of Fly Fisherman magazine 😀

FU Shorsey 🤣

Tom isn't that much of a heathen.....

 

[Bamboozle]

I have been a jig fisherman for decades now and love tying and fishing jigs mostly with spin tackle. Spending time in NC and IL exposed me to serious crappie and smallie jig tyers who had many things to teach trout fishermen. When water is high and muddy I prefer to use jigs with spinning tackle than struggling with fly tackle. Dry fly conditions aren't always there and I am not fly or die.

Fly guys can get a little snooty. Back in the 90's I was fishing an all-tackle special regs area in the winter with 1/64 oz jigs and light spinning tackle. The fly guys were giving me heat and checking my line to check that I didn't have bait. Then I noticed that they were slinging buggers with tungsten cones that weighed about 1/8 oz. They didn't like it when mentioned they were using heavier lures than I did. I later got into a ruckus with these guys because I built a fly rod with single foot guides and fished it in a fly zone. They claimed that fly rods needed snake guide to be legal. Called the CO and fortunately he sided with me. These days few people would argue against a fly rod with single foot guides so things do change. I am 90% a fly guy, but some purists can put a damper on things.

I don't really feel a jig is a fly and don't fish them in fly only water, but I don't see much difference between a jig and a cone head streamer/bugger. I also draw the line on Otter's eggs - they just are flies.

Please, God, before I die when I am spin fishing, make a fly fisherman come up to me in an artificials only stretch and ask to see if I am using bait... 😉

FWIW - When I spin fish for trout, the FIRST thing I put on is a marabou crappie jig, usually white followed by yellow. When fly fishing, I have given more than a few spin guys bead-head & cone-head Woolly Buggers since to me, they are pretty much the same as a crappie jig...

The Woolly Bugger thing and your comments about snooty fly guys reminds me of a time fishing the Delayed Harvest Artificials Only Section (02) of Mud Run. I used to fly fish it often, but hadn't been there in a LONG time so some friends & I hiked the miserable trail west of the Turnpike overpass down to the creek.

While scoping things out, I bumped into two guys spin fishing and we started chatting about trout fishing, lures & tactics and I gave them some Woolly Buggers and some beadhead nymphs. Before we went our separate ways, one of the spin guys said, "How come you aren't an a$$#ole like all the other fly fishermen we meet?"

🙂

 

[DomR]

Damn uppity fly fishermen, when they going to relax, let their a-holes unpucker, and learn to have fun 🙂

 

[gfenlikestolosepasswords]

What I hate is a 15 minute video to tie a hair jig.

That has to do with squeezing more advertising into the video for maximum profit. The longer you drag it out, the more you can fit into it. 10 minutes was the minimum length to get a mid-video ad break. 15 minutes can get 2 mid-video ad breaks. 20 minutes 3 or even 4.

They have lowered it to 8 minutes, fwiw. Thankfully, that's two less minutes of someone talking about nonsense in their folksy looking studios but it's still too much.

 

[vern]

The first and foremost breakdown is the different ways to cast.
fly casting, spinning and bait casting.

The the types of “lures” (as in luring a fish to bite) are generally different because of the needs for the casting type.

Fishermen up through the 1980s didn’t have a problem with understanding the difference between the lures.
Flies were tied up with thread on a hook using mostly feathers, fur and some other natural materials.
Man made metals and wood and eventually plastic alone or combined with natural materials are the lures for spinning.

Baitcasting lures are heavier because casting requires it.

I used to fish 2 pound spinning setups with tiny jigs. Lots of warm water and trout water.
Tiny jigs work well as do spinners and other smaller weight lures including live bait.
Spinning can handle it all, for the most part but it is different casting.
Flycasting was designed to cast a line. Casting a line is much different than throwing weight, of course.
Casting a line is necessary because the size and weight of the lures/flies is too light for other casting methods.

Today’s plastics can work at the entire range of weights needed for each method of casting.

But each casting method is its own game!

IMO plastics are cheap and easy materials and pollute.

Plastics have replaced much of the use of natural materials, especially flies.

I urge the minimization of plastics across the board.

But flycasting is a different casting technique. Most trout flies originally imitated flies, then salmon fly/streamer flies and heavier rigs for the heavier saltwater flies.

But the differences mentioned here reflects the different rules that were widely adopted by game fishing agencies.

Casting a line is flycasting.

The agency rules reflected the differences.

If today’s parameters would have been permitted during the 1960s and 1970s then a state record brown trout would have been caught from Big Spring because the fly used was basically a deer hair sculpin attached to a spinning blade clamp.
The Fish Commission declared it to not be a fly.
Joe Hump didn’t have the spinner up front so his smaller trout was deemed the fly caught champion.

As far as individuals who must use a casting technique to declare superiority, it’s really nothing new within the human experience.
In high school one of the fellow academic students came after me because I was also a top football player etc and he said that I didn’t belong in their social groups.

It happens across all activities and religions.
It’s a self image need.
It’s bench sitters seeking attention because they want attention and not actually enjoy the sport.
Same within almost all activities.
But it’s not the viewpoint of the originators of an activity.
The original viewpoint is that this activity is fun so if you want to join in somebody can help.

A cane pole can be used for about all weights and sizes.
Baitcasting is much more limited.

IMO the Euronymph technique is the cane pole casting technique.

 

[Sylvaneous]

Ive been saying this for years regarding the direction of fly fishing.

They also have size 4 articulated streamers, yet they criticize spin anglers for tossing out rapalas.

It's time for fly fishers to admit they are basically spin fishing with more expensive equipment. Just has been my position over the past few years since 18 foot 4x leaders have become the norm to catch trout, yet the same fluorocarbon 4 pound test line I have on my spin rod is not permitted?

Put a spinning reel on a fly rod and be honest about it.

 

[vern]

Yo Bamboozle!
On two different locations and times I informed guys fishing with bait within artificial only sections that they were breaking the law.
I informed them. One was a visitor from another country who didn’t have much time to read how to use proper technique.
He only had a day and then gone.
Didn’t feel it necessary to turn him in.
The other guy was using imitation eggs and he also was ignored. It went to all techniques the next year.