Segloch, Lancaster County, 2/12/2013

[Swattie87]

Actually come to think of it, how close did you get to Fox Road?

I was just hiking it about 3 weeks ago and there is a big hole with a big downed tree and undercuts on either side. Certainly better than that one but you are right, it's looking pretty poor these days habitat wise.

I stopped at that hole, where the trail crosses and leads back to the south. Nothing in that hole. Didn’t see a fish. That hole was 3 or 4 feet deep following the floods. It’s maybe 18”, 2 feet tops now?

I caught my best Brown in Furnace from that hole. Probably 5 or 6 years ago now though.

 

[sixfootfenwick]

I did say that. And I did mean that lower gradient generally translates into poorer habitat for Trout, especially on small streams. Once Segloch and Furnace (since they’re the examples in discussion here) get below the TPike they become very low gradient. The sand issues become even worse because there is less water velocity to move it.

Too much gradient isn’t good too. There’s definitely a sweet spot. Both Segloch and Furnace in their SGL stretches have decent enough gradient to make decent habitat (were it not for the sand). Outside of those stretches they don’t. See the report for pics and confirmation.

Outside those stretches they go through what used to be Elizabeth farms and get baked in the open sun.
It's pretty much deforested.

I do agree with your above assessment though.
Through the SGL the gradient is fine, below with the silt will always lead to poorer habitat.

But I've fished too many other low gradient silty trout streams to know that is the least of it's worries.
They have bigger issues as limiting factors.(more so furnace).

 

[sarce]

I think this same type of geology is also present in French Creek state park and I noticed a similar decline in habitat in the UNT to Sixpenny several years ago, following some really outstanding fishing prior to that. It's a completely forested watershed so the other negative impacts that hurt Furnace don't apply. Haven't been back in about 5 years so I'm not sure what it's like now.

 

[Swattie87]

I think this same type of geology is also present in French Creek state park and I noticed a similar decline in habitat in the UNT to Sixpenny several years ago, following some really outstanding fishing prior to that. It's a completely forested watershed so the other negative impacts that hurt Furnace don't apply. Haven't been back in about 5 years so I'm not sure what it's like now.

You’re right, the geology of that area is the same. And I’ve been there, Spring of Covid Lockdoen IIRC. Shocker I know…It’s really sandy. Hay Creek is a lot of the same too.

 

[wgmiller]

It would be interesting to see a geology map of the area, because I think it could confirm that many of the streams along that "vein" have similar substrate.

 

[Swattie87]

It would be interesting to see a geology map of the area, because I think it could confirm that many of the streams along that "vein" have similar substrate.

PA Geology Map

It’s a little slow to load and finicky once you start zooming, but be patient with it. Click anywhere for a description.

 

[wgmiller]

PA Geology Map

It’s a little slow to load and finicky once you start zooming, but be patient with it. Click anywhere for a description.

Good stuff. Thanks for sharing. It certainly explains a thing or two!

 

[sarce]

You’re right, the geology of that area is the same. And I’ve been there, Spring of Covid Lockdoen IIRC. Shocker I know…It’s really sandy. Hay Creek is a lot of the same too.

It's crazy. That UNT was SO GOOD the first time I fished it. 2013 I think. Maybe earlier. I caught 30 brookies and 2 browns and plenty of the brooks were 8-9". By 2016-2017 it dwindled to only being able to catch 1/10th that number and 7" was a giant.

 

[caddisflyer]

Thinking back almost 50 years, all these streams had better flow all year round than they do now. They have sort of been in a long slow decline viewed that way. And then there have been some relatively good years fairly recently. All streams have boom and bust years. That is certainly true for all these. Unless something has changed like a new road or some kind of housing development or other man made problem, I would expect we may have good years again. I think everyone agrees that the silt is the biggest issue. Unless of course something else has changed with underground springs or maybe climate change? A combination of a number of these things might just be too much to overcome. I was sort of shocked at the lack of fish in the past two years or so in Hammer (which is by far the best of all these being discussed) Do you think we have rounded the bend finally and are seeing the last of the good fishing on the small Furnace Hills streams?

 

[Swattie87]

No. I think they’ll rebound again. But it’ll take another flood level event to clean out the sand and temporarily improve the habitat. The fish that are there will make more fish, and more will survive and grow larger in the temporary better habitat. The cycle will then repeat.

 

[riverwhy]

I hope that pair of Brookies you caught were male and female. Then there is the potential for at least one breeding pair! I am much more pessimistic about these streams. I forgot about that study! Were any of the recommendations actually implemented? Not sure how they could say those ponds on Segloch are a source of cold water?
The problems is the headwaters have had additional building and numerous land disturbances. More wells drilled. More roads/lanes carved into the fragile uplands. I would like to know the years that some of those homes were constructed up on Cannon Hill. I tried to use real estate maps but couldn't figure it out but seems like mayby early 2000's for most. I used to hunt with a friend up there where there are now a line of houses. They need to do another study with a really push for best practices.

I think the Brookies in Furnace have a better chance due to the springs that cool the area down from spring lake. That area has decent gradient also. Downstream along Hopeland Road, Elizabeth farms seems to be cutting down every tree they can even in vulnerable areas. Check out the cut along the west side of the road right around the turn as you head up the hill towards the Brickerville Fire House.

 

[HopBack]

I am not familiar with the stream and I will never travel that far to fish it, but that looks beautiful Swattie. A stream with a lot of potential. It looks like a lot of small creeks around me in the valleys, actually. My streams don't have that sand/sedimentation problem, though.

It’s one of the finer mud holes Lancaster county has to offer.

 

[caddisflyer]

I think you may count yourself lucky if you enjoyed some years of good fishing on any of the mentioned creeks in Lancaster County. You might have better and worse years but overall they are in decline. At some point the scales tip. They may all very well be going the direction of several of the creeks that were once famous over in Cumberland County. Gone.

 

[Mike]

I think you may count yourself lucky if you enjoyed some years of good fishing on any of the mentioned creeks in Lancaster County. You might have better and worse years but overall they are in decline. At some point the scales tip. They may all very well be going the direction of several of the creeks that were once famous over in Cumberland County. Gone.

Worth mentioning however, is that Tucquan Ck’s wild BT population has blossomed into a very good Class A over the past decade, so not all Lanc Co streams are going downhill. Fishing Ck has also been gradually improving and one particular stretch is a lot better than most know.

 

[jifigz]

I think you may count yourself lucky if you enjoyed some years of good fishing on any of the mentioned creeks in Lancaster County. You might have better and worse years but overall they are in decline. At some point the scales tip. They may all very well be going the direction of several of the creeks that were once famous over in Cumberland County. Gone.

What are the streams that are gone in Cumberland that you speak of? Letort? Big Spring? Trindle? All former shells of their previous glory. Or are there streams that were once great that are totally decimated?

 

[Swattie87]

The River Hills streams in SW Lancaster County don’t have the same geological issues that the Furnace Hills streams do.

 

[sixfootfenwick]

What are the streams that are gone in Cumberland that you speak of? Letort? Big Spring? Trindle? All former shells of their previous glory. Or are there streams that were once great that are totally decimated?

I would imagine Cedar Run

 

[sixfootfenwick]

Worth mentioning however, is that Tucquan Ck’s wild BT population has blossomed into a very good Class A over the past decade, so not all Lanc Co streams are going downhill. Fishing Ck has also been gradually improving and one particular stretch is a lot better than most know.

It should be noted, you can't access Tucquan easily anymore.

Tucquan Glen & Pyfer Nature Preserves - Lancaster Conservancy

Offers strenuous hiking along multiple loops. If the parking lot is full please seek a hiking experience at another nearby Conservancy preserve. Parking is prohibited anywhere but the parking lot.

www.lancasterconservancy.org

With the strenuous longer hike to it, I bet it fishes much better with less foot traffic.

That place was a circus

 

[Mike]

It should be noted, you can't access Tucquan easily anymore.

Tucquan Glen & Pyfer Nature Preserves - Lancaster Conservancy

Offers strenuous hiking along multiple loops. If the parking lot is full please seek a hiking experience at another nearby Conservancy preserve. Parking is prohibited anywhere but the parking lot.

www.lancasterconservancy.org

With the strenuous longer hike to it, I bet it fishes much better with less foot traffic.

That place was a circus

Right you are regarding lost parking, but the survey was conducted prior to the closure to parking.

Swattie is right, but I was not comparing the two areas. My intent was to say take heart, some streams in Lancaster Co are improving.

 

[Fish Sticks]

Ohhhh yea your right about cedar run, limestone legends claims 3-5lb brook trout were common as late as early as 1900’s.

I am guessing the half dead lancaster county line stoners all used to have wild native brook trout. Brubaker run and some of those that are spring creeks but had like 20 mill dams on them that perched all their springs