Raystown Branch smallmouth problem?

[Cjs2636]

Our family has been fishing the Raystown Branch of the Juniata for smallies for decades. Typically in various places from Everett down to Saxton. The last couple years the fishing has just not been anywhere near what we’re used to. Number of fish we’re catching is way down and so is the average size. In addition to this, we’ve noticed that we haven’t been catching many if any Rockies or sunfish like we always did in the river.

Is anyone else experiencing the same thing or have any thoughts on what might be the issue? Is there a water quality problem?

The river was always our summer oasis when it got too hot for trout fishing and it has been extremely disheartening the last couple seasons. Curious to see if anyone has any knowledge or thoughts.

 

[Swattie87]

There’s been a similar trend noticed in some similar sized tributaries as to the Raystown Branch. Disappearance of Rock Bass period, and generally less sunfish. Redbreasts and Fallfish seem ok, generally. And less and smaller SMB too. My home creek experiencing it. Yet, the big river main stems seem to be booming. Almost like they operate it inverse of one another.

But yeah, I was primarily a WW guy, fishing one stream in particular for a good bit. It’s been less and less every year as of late, and more using my available fishing time over the Summer for those couple brief windows a Summer when the Trout fishing is worth playing hooky for.

 

[Jemoca75!]

The flatheads decimate the pan fish. My area of the susky ( Bainbridge-wrightsville ) has seen a huge decline, the smallies tend to move away from the flathead habitat . They have flathead tournaments up and down the river and then release them back.

 

[poopdeck]

Can’t speak for your home waters but I watched the SMB population on the Delaware get completely decimated over the last 10 years. I haven’t seen a bluegill, rockie or other panfish in at least two decades. The SMB decline coincided with the increase in flatheads and now snakeheads. How anybody can say flatheads and snakeheads have no effect on other fish blows my mind. It’s so bad on the Delaware that I might not go out for SMB at all whereas in years gone by I would have been out at least a dozen times by now. While the numbers of SMB pale in comparison to what they once were, the size of the ones that remain are getting bigger. We use to catch 40 or 50 in a morning but now 10 during an entire day is considered a good day. More and more I’ve been going fishing for flounder in the summer months.

I’m sorry to say, your problems are only going to get worse,

 

[jifigz]

To the best of my knowledge, there are no flatheads above either dam - Raystown & Petersburg. I doubt there is anything majorly wrong with the Raystown Branch. FWIW, my smallmouth fishing has been lousy this year, and I know the fish are there. Rock bass disappeared from the main stem of the Juniata a long time ago - before the flathead invasion.

I don't have any real information to help you, but I'm sure the fishing will improve.

 

[bdhoover77]

Not to derail the thread, but is there any type of fishing that does not seem to be having trouble right now? Whether it’s trout and loss of cold water, SMB and the loss of forage fish, invasive species, etc., is there any reason to be optimistic about fishing at the moment?

 

[jifigz]

Not to derail the thread, but is there any type of fishing that does not seem to be having trouble right now? Whether it’s trout and loss of cold water, SMB and the loss of forage fish, invasive species, etc., is there any reason to be optimistic about fishing at the moment?

Yeah, if you like flatheads and eels, they're doing well. The Juniata is actually producing some of its best bass it has in many years. It's a top-notch fishery right now, but it has fished poorly for me so far this year. Snakeheads are also doing well and have a cult following, so angling for them would be a good option.

Have we really lost cold water? Yeah, things get warmish in summer, but overall PA's wild trout populations are likely better than they have been in decades.

 

[bdhoover77]

Yeah, if you like flatheads and eels, they're doing well. The Juniata is actually producing some of its best bass it has in many years. It's a top-notch fishery right now, but it has fished poorly for me so far this year. Snakeheads are also doing well and have a cult following, so angling for them would be a good option.

Have we really lost cold water? Yeah, things get warmish in summer, but overall PA's wild trout populations are likely better than they have been in decades.

Fair points. I know we haven’t lost all cold water, but several area tailwaters are struggling with minimal flows because reservoirs cannot be replenished due to prolonged drought periods. I’m thinking in particular of my local tailwater here in Baltimore County, MD. But yes, wild trout populations in PA are certainly stronger than here in MD.

Speaking for myself, I need to get up to PA for some SMB fishing this summer.

 

[Nymph-wristed]

There are plenty of examples of watersheds that are thriving that weren't in recent years or haven't been good in decades. That does not help when your favorite creek is in decline. It does mean that if you branch out and explore new water, you may find a balance to the feelings of doom and gloom. That is how I keep those very real concerns at bay. I hate letting one go (at least temporarily) but I often find another to fill the void, so to speak.

 

[Dave_W]

Cjs2636:
While I don't have the experience on the Raystown Branch of the Juniata River that you do, I've been fishing the RBJR off and on over the years in the same area as you. I never thought it was a great fishery. I had plenty of good days, but the bass were smaller on average and fewer in number than what I was used to in the lower Juniata. I did think the redbreast sunfish fishing was excellent (they were really what kept me going back). I haven't fished it in a few years. One thing I noticed was it had very few crayfish and rock rolling showed much fewer macros that other WW rivers of similar size so my conclusion was that the forage base was poor and this combined with poor habitat limited the potential of the fishery.

Whatever the case, for what might explain a decline I'd theorize that there may be more development in the watershed and perhaps more severe agricultural practices that might be a culprit. Might there be sewage treatment problems in the watershed? Is fishing better upstream above certain towns?
Hhmm. . . ?

 

[Cougarbaby]

Kind of far for some of you but the Clarions smallmouth are getting bigger IMO ,I'm talking below the trout waters, heading there tomorrow morning to fish and swim in the heat

 

[jifigz]

Kind of far for some of you but the Clarions smallmouth are getting bigger IMO ,I'm talking below the trout waters, heading there tomorrow morning to fish and swim in the heat

Used to fish the Clarion for SMB a lot. I love that river..

 

[Cjs2636]

Cjs2636:
While I don't have the experience on the Raystown Branch of the Juniata River that you do, I've been fishing the RBJR off and on over the years in the same area as you. I never thought it was a great fishery. I had plenty of good days, but the bass were smaller on average and fewer in number than what I was used to in the lower Juniata. I did think the redbreast sunfish fishing was excellent (they were really what kept me going back). I haven't fished it in a few years. One thing I noticed was it had very few crayfish and rock rolling showed much fewer macros that other WW rivers of similar size so my conclusion was that the forage base was poor and this combined with poor habitat limited the potential of the fishery.

Whatever the case, for what might explain a decline I'd theorize that there may be more development in the watershed and perhaps more severe agricultural practices that might be a culprit. Might there be sewage treatment problems in the watershed? Is fishing better upstream above certain towns?
Hhmm. . . ?

I would agree that it’s probably never been a great fishery in terms of SMB fish quality. But that was acceptable when the numbers were there. It was just a few years ago when the norm would be catching 30-50 fish a day. We haven’t come remotely close to that in recent years. And as you mentioned the sunfish and rock bass are seemingly gone. It’s very sad for a family that considers that stretch of river our “family river”.

 

[Cjs2636]

Kind of far for some of you but the Clarions smallmouth are getting bigger IMO ,I'm talking below the trout waters, heading there tomorrow morning to fish and swim in the heat

This has been on my list to fish for awhile. Need to make a trip and check it out!