Pine Creek (Bass), Lycoming Co., 07/30/26

[Dave_W]

WEATHER: Partly Cloudy, 80s.
WATER: Up a bit from rains and stained, didn't check level but wading was easy, 77 degrees F. confirmed by thermometer.
HATCHES/FORAGE: Nothing of note.

Fishing was fair to middlin.

Hit a couple spots above and below the stretch and brought perhaps a dozen fish to hand with the largest a bit over a foot. Poppers missed some fish. I use poppers on the larger size and the fish were on the smaller size. I had much better luck swinging nymphs (black, about 1-2" in length). Fish were locally concentrated with some good looking habitat having none, and a 100 yds up or downstream you'd find them with ledgerock areas pretty good (no surprise). I caught no fish in riffles. Shoreline willow grass had fish, but only yearlings. Evening was dead with no topwater bite and no rises. The sections I fished had a lot of stocked trout a month ago, but I saw none this week (again, no surprise). Did get quite a few fallfish and a couple rock bass.

 

[Mike]

Your observation about no catches in the riffles was interesting. Early in my career, I set up numerous fixed sites for warmwater fish electrofishing surveys, including rivers and streams. Per the protocols, the upstream sampling limits were often demarcated by fast flowing water, including riffles and runs, and sometimes including boulders and bedrock within. Contrary to what I initially expected, I learned through experience that fast moving water up to between 1-6 ft deep was not very good habitat for smallmouth bass even when boulders or bedrock created eddies. In fact, I would say that such water was poor habitat for SMB in its own right and certainly when compared to the areas downstream, including the immediate tail-outs of the faster sections. The number of SMB electrofished in fast moving water and in riffles was quite low for the amount of electrofishing effort expended. Bass densities were poor in those fast segments and in the eddies contained within. Exceptions occurred in fast moving stretches where 1-6 ft and greater depth eddies occurred along the shorelines and at the downstream ends of rubble/gravel islands exposed in lower flow periods.in rivers. This is not to say that SMB don’t move upstream through fast water of depths described; it’s more of a comment about residency.

 

[TimMurphy]

Your observation about no catches in the riffles was interesting. Early in my career, I set up numerous fixed sites for warmwater fish electrofishing surveys, including rivers and streams. Per the protocols, the upstream sampling limits were often demarcated by fast flowing water, including riffles and runs, and sometimes including boulders and bedrock within. Contrary to what I initially expected, I learned through experience that fast moving water up to between 1-6 ft deep was not very good habitat for smallmouth bass even when boulders or bedrock created eddies. In fact, I would say that such water was poor habitat for SMB in its own right and certainly when compared to the areas downstream, including the immediate tail-outs of the faster sections. The number of SMB electrofished in fast moving water and in riffles was quite low for the amount of electrofishing effort expended. Bass densities were poor in those fast segments and in the eddies contained within. Exceptions occurred in fast moving stretches where 1-6 ft and greater depth eddies occurred along the shorelines and at the downstream ends of rubble/gravel islands exposed in lower flow periods.in rivers. This is not to say that SMB don’t move upstream through fast water of depths described; it’s more of a comment about residency.

Dear Mike,

I think that what you say is conditional on the particular river or stream. For example, the North Branch of the Susquehanna above Laceyville PA has almost no real rock ledges and few boulders. Further up above Sayre PA the river bottom is nearly 100% cobble, most of it is smaller than softball size. The geology of the region is much different from central and southern PA.

If you didn't fish riffles the fishing opportunities would be almost non-existent. Yes, there are larger pools but almost all of them require a boat of some type or a long walk to access. I along with my brother caught many 18 inch and larger smallmouth bass in shin deep water up there because that was all there was in a lot of places. Even when running my jet jon boat we always began fishing in extreme shallow water at the upper end of a pool and never failed to catch fish in that skinny stuff. It might have helped that we were on the water early in the morning under the cover of fog and mist, but the fish were certainly there and active.

The lower Susquehanna and even the Juniata are vastly different river systems compared to the upper reaches of the North Branch. We'd pick up more than the occasional walleye and often get bite offs from pike in that skinny stuff during early morning or overcast conditions.

Regards,

Tim Murphy 🙂

 

[Mike]

I agree that it could be water-specific and could also be general river flow,:water temp, and daylight vs darkness specific. In most cases surveys in rivers were done under summer and fall flow conditions and I don’t doubt that there are bass in the “skinny” water at the upper ends of pools. That’s what we found too, but the fast moving “skinny” water was what I was speaking about.

There is absolutely more shoreline SMB presence in the same rivers and sites when flows are at a certain level or higher. For example, at a particular lower Susquehanna site (not in an impoundment) that is 1.5-2 mi long in my estimation, if the Susq R stage at Hbg is less than 3.7 ft, the night shoreline electrofishing stinks. Raise the stage to 3.7-4.2 and the shoreline is loaded with bass. Likewise, but not to the extent as when flow is increased, river SMB in the Susq and other system are more abundant along shore at night than during daylight even in the hour before dark vs the hour after dark. This difference in great part goes away when water is turbid and has come up or is rising.

With respect to my specific comment about fast water riffles and runs, I don't recall what the case was on the “North Branch” Susquehanna R, but it was true on the lower Susq R in York/Lanc Co. I I don’t recall the exact situation on the Yough, but fast shoreline water when the river was a bit high and muddy from storms produced best. I’m not speaking of the riffles in that case.. I also don’t recall the situation on the Chemung, and the Monongahela and Cheat were “dogs” when I worked them in 1976. One the other hand, the fast water in the Schuylkill and lower, non-tidal Delaware was always poor during the daylight hrs and at night. Generally speaking, the river rapids and riffles around Pa and depending upon the river basin are loaded with white suckers, various redhorse, hogsuckers, sometimes quillbacks, and sometimes eels. As you say, at times walleye are there in good numbers, and sometimes so are channel cats and striped bass..

 

[Dave_W]

Interesting stuff - thanks Mike and Tim.

In my experience, actual riffles and fast current generally is poor holding water for SMBs, especially larger ones. However, I have jumped a fair number of large bass when drifting through riffles. . . it's just not where I expect to see them consistently. I have also spooked many channel cats laying in riffles (especially at night) and even a couple muskies oddly enough. Catties in particular really like the fast water where riffles start to slow out into a pool, you'll often see several at the base of every riffle in the Juniata or Potomac, sometimes dozens (it helps if there is woody debris nearby).

On Mike's point about higher water, I do find that bass really like to get up into willow grass when water is up a bit, even though willow grass edges are very shallow. Willow grass holds a lot of minnows. Since many riffle areas are bordered with willow grass, if I see this, I will definitely take some time to fish that riffle, whereas if I don't see the willow grass, I skip similar riffles. Most of the bass I catch along willow grass edges, especially along riffles are small fish, typically one or two year olds. If the water is up, however, the back side of a willow grass island is a high confidence spot for large bass in my view.

 

[afishinado]

One thing more to ponder, electro "fishing" and "fishing" are two different things. The former proves the presence of bass, while the latter is an indication of FEEDING bass in the shallows. How many times have we seen fish schooled up in an area and yet getting blanked fishing, and we fish in the more shallow water and/or shady area and catch a bunch. Fish on!! Likely the fish in shallow water are feeding and the fish, perhaps even much more numerous, are sulking in the deeper water.

 

[sandflyx]

up here on upper pine you find the bass in the riffles alot

 

[FisherOfMen]

In my experience I catch more large bass in riffles for the reason mentioned. They are actively pursuing baitfish.
They are easy targets for multiple reasons. It's easy to find a riffle and target holding areas than flat endless deep water and they are actively feeding.

I enjoy the pull of a large smallmouth in a large riffle too.