Leader to fly line: Don’t know if this has been posted before but I found it useful

[hooker-of-men]

I cut my hook points off and re-hone the blunt wire, too. Far superior to the inherent failings associated with factory sharpened hooks.

 

[PennKev]

The narrative that a loop to loop connection is bad is so strange to me. I've done it every way and notice zero advantage over not using a loop to loop. The troutbitten guy (who's sole goal it seems is to make flyfishing the most complicated activity in the world)

While i agree with this...

...saying tying a clinch knot to the loop also makes no sense to me. Why would that hang up any less than a regular loop to loop? Also it cuts the coating on the line inviting water to soak into it.

It is much lower profile and does not have the shape that hangs up in the tip guide. It is as smooth as a nail not with the leader run through the core of the line. In regards to cutting through the coating, a cinched down loop-loop will do that anyway so that is not an advantage. This is why i recommend a mico loop, which will get sealed up as part of the process. See this link for a tutorial on making a micro loop, which I believe is the next logical step and an overall improvement: Micro Loop Video

Also, If done with any care, you can remove the leader and tie with back on while only losing about an inch of material off the butt of the leader.

I've recommended micro loops elsewhere on this forum and will continue to do so. They are, in fact, superior to any other method when changing out leaders with any regularity is a concern.

 

[dudemanspecial]

I guess I don't run into a situation where hanging up in my guides happens that often. When flyfishing my leader is usually 10-12 feet with an 8.5 or 9 foot rod and I really only ever deal with that when landing a fish, and that is no big deal to me to just pull the line back out after releasing it if it does happen.

When I commit to nymphing with a super long leader I just put enough mono on there so my fly line never leaves my reel, so again it's not an issue.

I can see the value in this other stuff if you choose to have your line / leader connection going through your guides often for whatever reason.

 

[Nocktavius]

I guess I don't run into a situation where hanging up in my guides happens that often. When flyfishing my leader is usually 10-12 feet with an 8.5 or 9 foot rod and I really only ever deal with that when landing a fish, and that is no big deal to me to just pull the line back out after releasing it if it does happen.

When I commit to nymphing with a super long leader I just put enough mono on there so my fly line never leaves my reel, so again it's not an issue.

I can see the value in this other stuff if you choose to have your line / leader connection going through your guides often for whatever reason.

On the drift boat (especially solo where I need to position, anchor up and then transition to shoot line fairly quick), I was running into having to pull the loop de loop through the tip tops quite a bit, but running it around back of the reel seat fixed the problem. Even on the Upper Delaware with a 16’-17’ summertime size dry fly leader it’s not much of an issue that way.

As you said with the nymphing leader, just make it long enough that you never see fly line in the guides at all.

 

[Skook]

There is a trick to the smoothest connection...

You HAVE to make sure your connection looks like a 'handshake," like THIS:

View attachment 1641251927
NOT like a "cow hitch," like this:

View attachment 1641251928

Am I missing something here, or does this diagram show the same two-step method but with a different end result?

I understand what it is trying to show with regard to the "handshake" being the correct method, but I think the second diagram does not correctly illustrate the method that results in the incorrect "cow hitch" connection. Doesn't the cow hitch result when the end of the leader is passed back through its own loop to make the connection?

 

[Bamboozle]

Am I missing something here, or does this diagram show the same two-step method but with a different end result?

I understand what it is trying to show with regard to the "handshake" being the correct method, but I think the second diagram does not correctly illustrate the method that results in the incorrect "cow hitch" connection. Doesn't the cow hitch result when the end of the leader is passed back through its own loop to make the connection?

Yes, you are missing something, 😉 you can get two different results using the same method...

IDEALLY a hitch is less likely to happen if you pass the leader through the line loop versus the leader loop, but regardless of which loop you pass the leader through, a "hitch" results when one or the other loops flips down from the sides of the other loop.

In all situations, you can "fix" the problem WITHOUT removing the leader by simply flipping the offending loop up to the side of the other loop.

If the hitch was created by passing the leader through its own loop, flipping the loop to the correct position will put a half twist in the offending loop which isn't a big deal. Just remove the leader the next time you clean your line (IF you clean your lines) or decide to change leaders and do it correctly.

 

[poopdeck]

The only problem with a loop to loop is not really a problem. I’m rarely retrieving the leader through the guides. If I do, I’m just gonna pull it back out rather then try casting it out. Whats the reason for bringing the leader connection through the guides? Reeling the loop to loop into the guides isn’t a problem so the real question is why are you casting the loop to loop out through the guides? Are you fishing really long leaders? Perhaps if I were really not fly casting and was more just dabbling 20’ of mono I would need a slender connection, but I’m not so the loop to loop is superior for my needs.

I think knot tying is taken by some to be an indicator of a higher level of mastery. Like those who say you have to learn to whip finish by hand to be a serious fly tier.

 

[CinnamonJoe]

Certain streams should be limited to 'nail knot' only rigging restrictions while fly fishing; should probably start with Fishing Creek.

Joe

 

[bdhoover77]

I think, like with many activities, people inevitably want to experiment and tinker with different ideas and solutions. Maybe there are issues with a loop-to-loop connection when tightline nymphing and using a long leader. I don’t know, but I’ve never had an issue with a loop-to-loop connection and will continue to use it.

Incidentally I tried euro/tightline nymphing for the first time in over a year last week. I forgot that I really don’t enjoy it all that much. I’m not very good at casting a long mono leader (probably not that good at casting fly line either, but that’s beside the point). I have never found a euro-style leader that works well for me. I had a hand-tied tapered leader and the blood knots actually did catch in the guides. The next time I bring out the euro rod, I’m going to try with a longer level mono leader.

 

[Skook]

Yes, you are missing something, 😉 you can get two different results using the same method...

IDEALLY a hitch is less likely to happen if you pass the leader through the line loop versus the leader loop, but regardless of which loop you pass the leader through, a "hitch" results when one or the other loops flips down from the sides of the other loop.

In all situations, you can "fix" the problem WITHOUT removing the leader by simply flipping the offending loop up to the side of the other loop.

If the hitch was created by passing the leader through its own loop, flipping the loop to the correct position will put a half twist in the offending loop which isn't a big deal. Just remove the leader the next time you clean your line (IF you clean your lines) or decide to change leaders and do it correctly.

I always aim for the handshake connection, and I'm pretty sure I do it correctly most, if not all, of the time.

I was always under the impression that putting the leader loop through the fly line loop and then back down through itself was how the incorrect cow hitch connection was made.

I learn something new every day, lol.

 

[TimMurphy]

I always aim for the handshake connection, and I'm pretty sure I do it correctly most, if not all, of the time.

I was always under the impression that putting the leader loop through the fly line loop and then back down through itself was how the incorrect cow hitch connection was made.

I learn something new every day, lol.

Dear Skook,

Since the fly line loop and the leader loop are almost never inform in size, shape, or both I find that by slowly drawing the connection together I can see if it will lay properly. I usually pass the fly line loop through the leader loop then bring the leader through from underneath. If it's going south just undo it and try again.

Regards,

Tim Murphy 🙂

 

[JG63]

I used numerous methods before fly lines started coming with welded loops. The nail knot was my preferred. It didn't matter what I sealed it with though, it always compromised the buoyancy of the fly line more quickly than a loop to loop.

The only reason I would tie a nail knot now is if a loop broke. I've never had that happen but could see it happening if tying a clinch knot directly to the fly line loop. A loop to loop drastically increases the load distribution to the soft plastic of the fly line compared to a clinch knot. It's not as good as the nail knot in this regard but I can't think of a better way to cut through fly line than clinch knotting to it.

I listen to the troutbitten podcast. I fish differently for the most part but certainly glean some good information from it. I don't watch the videos but the advertising on the podcast isn't as bad as many out there.

I was thinking the same thing - I’ve never really liked the surface disturbance caused by loop to loop attachments on the pickup for the next cast, but also, I believe a 4X tippet would break before 30# mono would slice through a mono core coated fly line - but to that end, I have a cheap $10 imported WF7F with a loop that I will test and see - worst case, I lose a leader and a bug - I’ll experiment with Smallmouth too - I can’t see normal small stream trout fishing as cutting through - but Smallies on a medium size river using strip set methods will be a viable test - here’s a before and after pic of the changeover you can already see the scoring from the mono loop - with this new rig it’s hard to not foresee failure … on the water experience will tell - hopefully soon

 

[JG63]

I cut my hook points off and re-hone the blunt wire, too. Far superior to the inherent failings associated with factory sharpened hooks.

 

[Cebe]

I have used loop-to-loop, Castwell knot, albright, nail, perfection loops and never had a problem with it hanging in the guides and losing a fish. If you saw my reels you would see an example of any of these on something I fish regularly.
I probably use the Castwell and albright the most where I don’t have a flyline loop.
I have never used the needle or super glue splice .

 

[gfenlikestolosepasswords]

When I first started the prevailing knowledge was "cut off your leader when you can't fix it and nail knot a new one on." That seemed silly and I quickly learned most people just left a length of old leader and loop-to-looped a new one in place. Or bought some of that bright red Amnesia and used that. I think I still have a couple feet of it Heritage Ed gave me once to do that with.

Welded loops soon became common and people were cutting them off to nail knot on a piece of mono for the loop. That seemed silly. I've never had a problem.

I can't imagine a better method at this time. Why anyone would tie onto the loop and cut intot he coating is just silly but then maybe I'm doing it wrong because I don't use 18' leaders.

 

[Bamboozle]

When I first started the prevailing knowledge was "cut off your leader when you can't fix it and nail knot a new one on." That seemed silly and I quickly learned most people just left a length of old leader and loop-to-looped a new one in place. Or bought some of that bright red Amnesia and used that. I think I still have a couple feet of it Heritage Ed gave me once to do that with...

When I did the nail knotted hunk of mono with a loop at the end thing, I used to tie all of my own leaders with a Perfection loop at the end to do the loop-to-loop thing. At that same time, I tied my go nymphing leaders with a butt section made of florescent yellow Stren.

Today they call that a sighter... 😉

I assume that was the purpose of the red Amnesia??

 

[gfenlikestolosepasswords]

I assume that was the purpose of the red Amnesia??

Pretty much, yeah. Made "follow your line tip" easier when your line tip was 6" of bright red fiberoptic.

 

[tomgamber]

When you're hung over and you're stringing up your rod and the line slips through your fingers, that loop to loop keeps the whole line from slipping all the way down through every guide. 🤔

 

[JG63]

When you're hung over and you're stringing up your rod and the line slips through your fingers, that loop to loop keeps the whole line from slipping all the way down through every guide. 🤔

Then it’s a necessary evil!

 

[Solitariolupo]

Might be able to get away with this with those smaller trout but put a bigger fish on it wonder how it holds.
Already had the nail knot slice my fly line right off about 5 times now and loop to loop holds great. So far. The thing is why running so much line that it goes thru guides. I run mono 80lb my rod length than a foot or 2 leader.