Hammer Creek, Lancaster County 1/28/2023

[JeffP]

I guess it's the Lititz Sportsman's club. My neighbor is although I'm not really friends with him. I will ask. He is king of the fish slayers. He lets me pick his tomatoes and I sometimes have to watch my step. Huge dead snakehead scared the living crap out of me! I do get some occasional smoked trout from him.

 

[Fish Sticks]

I guess it's the Lititz Sportsman's club. My neighbor is although I'm not really friends with him. I will ask. He is king of the fish slayers. He lets me pick his tomatoes and I sometimes have to watch my step. Huge dead snakehead scared the living crap out of me! I do get some occasional smoked trout from him.

Well good maybe he can be king of the legally harvested non native fish slayers and I can talk to his club about their stocking. They own land they stock right? I imagine it goes over like a ton of bricks despite the usual polite and friendly manner in which I have these conversations in and they tell me to go play in some traffic but id still like to talk them

 

[JeffP]

Well good maybe he can be king of the legally harvested non native fish slayers and I can talk to his club about their stocking. They own land they stock right? I imagine it goes over like a ton of bricks despite the usual polite and friendly manner in which I have these conversations in and they tell me to go play in some traffic but id still like to talk them

Their hatchery is on Lititz Run. They don't own the land. I was told that by the landowner when I stopped one day to look at the coop nursery. Zero posted signs at the hatchery. I must walked around there 100 times. Can't do Lititz Run any good. I am pretty sure he is not high up in the club as I believe he is more invested in another club but pays $10 so he knows when the stocking dates are. From what I can tell, this club is deeply entrenched in the Lititz Community. I would also like to know about the Speedwell Forge Anglers Club which operates above the county park. Hugely eroded meadows and a trib with the highest banks I have ever seen. Steer have turned a good deal of the meadow into a mud pit. It was the worst I have ever seen it there when I went past today. I can find zero evidence of this anglers club online and have never seen anyone fishing it. Newer signs were put out the last year or 2.

 

[Fish Sticks]

Their hatchery is on Lititz Run. They don't own the land. I was told that by the landowner when I stopped one day to look at the coop nursery. Zero posted signs at the hatchery. I must walked around there 100 times. Can't do Lititz Run any good. I am pretty sure he is not high up in the club as I believe he is more invested in another club but pays $10 so he knows when the stocking dates are. From what I can tell, this club is deeply entrenched in the Lititz Community. I would also like to know about the Speedwell Forge Anglers Club which operates above the county park. Hugely eroded meadows and a trib with the highest banks I have ever seen. Steer have turned a good deal of the meadow into a mud pit. It was the worst I have ever seen it there when I went past today. I can find zero evidence of this anglers club online and have never seen anyone fishing it. Newer signs were put out the last year or 2.

Oh i think that was the one i was talking about, speedwell forge their like ghosts you never see anyone fishing that land. I hope their not stocking too. But yea if like to talk to both have been looking for a contact or stream side angler for years

 

[JeffP]

Oh i think that was the one i was talking about, speedwell forge their like ghosts you never see anyone fishing that land. I hope their not stocking too. But yea if like to talk to both have been looking for a contact or stream side angler for years

I love taking a couple casts in to the huge hole right at the start of posted land just out of spite.

 

[Fish Sticks]

I love taking a couple casts in to the huge hole right at the start of posted land just out of spite.

Watch they put in like 5000 trout for one of these all mighty fishing derbys PFBC hid behind to stock salt run and if hammer ever meets class A that will be the reason it gets an exception. Their all going to start claiming some kids derby occurred on every stream. And they prob don’t use it rest of the year.

 

[caddisflyer]

Someone asked a few posts back. Yes, there were good sized Brook Trout in Hammer in the 1970s.
Walnut had more water in it back then, has shrunken considerably. Fish from Hammer, decent sized Browns moved up into the larger pools in there and could be seen in the winter as well. They would be up even as far as where the stream is close to 322. But the Brook trout were also there. Over the years that all changed quite a bit. It became much smaller and then it seemed like it was all Brook Trout. Never saw the Browns way up there anymore.
The Segloch had more water in it back then. Almost any small stream I can think of in Lancaster County seemed to have more water back then.
Kettle, even though it is tiny was loaded with small Brook Trout as recently as a year ago. I have not been back lately.
I liked when Speedwell was drained and it was during that time period when I caught some of the biggest wild Browns and Brook Trout from Hammer. I doubt there is any correlation but I would have been happy if they had never filled it up again.

 

[troutbert]

Good history here, thanks for that. The first thing I thought of when reading about good fishing in the 70’s, and seemingly less sand (and more gravel) in Segloch at the time was Hurricane Agnes (1972). Wonder if the same flood, clean out cycle, was occurring then too, producing relatively better habitat and fishing for the next few years. Interesting to ponder.

I don’t know what (if any) major flooding events happened in between Agnes and 2011. IIRC, I think there was a big January thaw/runoff type high water event in 1995 or 1996…Big, wet snow, followed by a big warm up and rain event. Anyone think of any others?

There was a big flood in January 1996. It was a rain-on-snow flood. At least it was very big in mid-state and northcentral PA.

In the mountain streams of NC PA, this flood reduced trout populations. I think the tumbling rocks simply ground up a lot of trout. The entire streambed substrate, except for the very largest boulders, got tumbled downstream. Many streams were greatly widened because the floodwaters tore out the vegetated bars along the sides of the stream. Resulting in shallow water flowing over wide streambeds. Then a severe drought hit in 1999. By the end of 1999 was probably one of the lowest points in mountain stream wild trout populations.

But recovery occurred. 2003 and 2004 were very good water years, with rains all through the summer, so the wild trout populations recovered strongly.

 

[Mike]

Someone asked a few posts back. Yes, there were good sized Brook Trout in Hammer in the 1970s.
Walnut had more water in it back then, has shrunken considerably. Fish from Hammer, decent sized Browns moved up into the larger pools in there and could be seen in the winter as well. They would be up even as far as where the stream is close to 322. But the Brook trout were also there. Over the years that all changed quite a bit. It became much smaller and then it seemed like it was all Brook Trout. Never saw the Browns way up there anymore.
The Segloch had more water in it back then. Almost any small stream I can think of in Lancaster County seemed to have more water back then.
Kettle, even though it is tiny was loaded with small Brook Trout as recently as a year ago. I have not been back lately.
I liked when Speedwell was drained and it was during that time period when I caught some of the biggest wild Browns and Brook Trout from Hammer. I doubt there is any correlation but I would have been happy if they had never filled it up again.

Because of the frequency with which I netted and electrofished Speedwell over the course of 39 yrs, I have serious doubts that the large trout came from the lake or spent much time there. While we occasionally captured a trout in the gear, they were always recently stocked fish from Hammer and never a wild fish. On the other hand, our sampling never took us up lake any closer to the Speedwell Forge Rd crossing than perhaps 200-300 yds, so it is possible that trout utilized the very upper end of the lake on a seasonal basis. I believe that lower Hammer just above the lake and for some distance above there used to get warm in the summers and certainly the upper lake got warm.

In 1986 gizzard shad were introduced to Speedwell (to enhance crappie growth) and their numbers exploded, annually producing good year classes. If the YOY were not too large by fall and winter, it is possible that some in the upper lake or even in the Speedwell Forge Rd area could have been utilized by brown trout, as YOY gizzard shad can provide great forage. (Gizzard shad occasionally enter the very lower ends of trib creeks in good numbers). The problem typically is, however, that they grow so fast that they often rapidly exceed the capabilities of predatory fishes’ gapes. They also can predominate the fish biomass in a lake and can negatively impact bluegill growth, so they are only to be used with great caution. In the Speedwell case, however, bluegill were already stunted. Trout do readily feed on them when they are of the appropriate size, as seen at Lancaster Co’s Muddy Run Recreation Lake.

 

[caddisflyer]

Because of the frequency with which I netted and electrofished Speedwell over the course of 39 yrs, I have serious doubts that the large trout came from the lake or spent much time there. While we occasionally captured a trout in the gear, they were always recently stocked fish from Hammer and never a wild fish. On the other hand, our sampling never took us up lake any closer to the Speedwell Forge Rd crossing than perhaps 200-300 yds, so it is possible that trout utilized the very upper end of the lake on a seasonal basis. I believe that lower Hammer just above the lake and for some distance above there used to get warm in the summers and certainly the upper lake got warm.

In 1986 gizzard shad were introduced to Speedwell (to enhance crappie growth) and their numbers exploded, annually producing good year classes. If the YOY were not too large by fall and winter, it is possible that some in the upper lake or even in the Speedwell Forge Rd area could have been utilized by brown trout, as YOY gizzard shad can provide great forage. (Gizzard shad occasionally enter the very lower ends of trib creeks in good numbers). The problem typically is, however, that they grow so fast that they often rapidly exceed the capabilities of predatory fishes’ gapes. They also can predominate the fish biomass in a lake and can negatively impact bluegill growth, so they are only to be used with great caution. In the Speedwell case, however, bluegill were already stunted. Trout do readily feed on them when they are of the appropriate size, as seen at Lancaster Co’s Muddy Run Recreation Lake.

I never thought the trout went down in the lake. I just thought when the dam was out and trees started growing along the old Hammer Creek streambed it started looking interesting and might have added to the trout areas of Hammer over time.

 

[Wild_Trouter]

It was a big snow year, I think we got about 32"-36" in the Philly burbs from that one storm alone. I remember shoveling it. A real horror story.

I remember that year/storm too...lots of Snow Babies were made. Harrisburg Hospital Maternity Ward was full 🤣🤘

 

[caddisflyer]

I too believe Walnut is the key here. It has likely been the biggest nursery for Hammer Creek Brook Trout. Combination of subtle land use changes including ponds. Fishsticks mentioned one near the source off Walnut Run Rd. There is also one on a heavily landscaped property on a perennial side branch that crosses 322. The stream and pond are all open to the sun and I would assume the lawns heavily manicured with fertilizer and pesticides. That is how the lawn area at the gated entrance to this property is maintained. With any rain that is enough to get that "stream" flowing, it runs brown. Brown pond water is not what you want feeding into the upper branches of a brookie stream. Have there been any macro studies on Walnut?

Widening of 322 another factor. More hot water running into the one smaller branch. Cutting down trees and spraying herbicides along highway is ridiculous. I have seen it being done. it is collapsing hillsides along the highway, the water of which feeds Hammer and Shearer's.

Huge development going up just to the east of Shaefferstown does not bode well for the upper parts of the main stream. Others on this forum can comment more on the upper meadow stretches. I have not been up there recently.

I would love to see Hammer become the focus of Brook Trout restoration and support ending stocking there if the public is on board. Will take some PR efforts but I think it can be done. As Caddisflyer said the Brookies and Browns did live side by side fairly recently, so I don't think extirpation of Brown Trout is necessary but maybe some culling could be encouraged.

Interesting that you mention Shearers. It collapsed about the same time. I used to do a route and hit all those streams in a day, sampling each at spots I knew were good. The last probably 4-5 years the fishing went way down. I am watching another stream in that general area right now that is a very different type of stream headed that way too. First the size drops off then the numbers. I always assumed Hammer and Shearers were both somewhat limestone streams in their headwaters at least. Am I wrong?
I have not caught a single wild trout in that park above Speedwell for a few years, only stocked ones. It used to have wild Browns and some decent Brook Trout. I don't know how much stocking that club above there does anymore? I have never seen anyone fishing that posted area in all the years I went there. They used to put some hogs in that sometimes made their way down to that park.
I would like to see what happens if you shut down Hammer above 322 for a few years, no stocking and no fishing. Monitor it and then see what happens.

 

[Mike]

With the decrease in stocking combined with the use of only RT that will occur upstream from Rt 322 this year you may get a hint of what the ST population response would be with respect to the abundance of legal size fish, that is if harvest of by-catch was the previous limitation.

 

[Swattie87]

Interesting that you mention Shearers. It collapsed about the same time. I used to do a route and hit all those streams in a day, sampling each at spots I knew were good. The last probably 4-5 years the fishing went way down. I am watching another stream in that general area right now that is a very different type of stream headed that way too. First the size drops off then the numbers. I always assumed Hammer and Shearers were both somewhat limestone streams in their headwaters at least. Am I wrong?
I have not caught a single wild trout in that park above Speedwell for a few years, only stocked ones. It used to have wild Browns and some decent Brook Trout. I don't know how much stocking that club above there does anymore? I have never seen anyone fishing that posted area in all the years I went there. They used to put some hogs in that sometimes made their way down to that park.
I would like to see what happens if you shut down Hammer above 322 for a few years, no stocking and no fishing. Monitor it and then see what happens.

I don’t think Shearers has any limestone. It drains south of the Furnace Hills. Up near 322 at the top of the hill is its headwaters. It doesn’t start in the limestone underlain Lebanon Valley to the north, and then cut through the hills to the south like Hammer does.

But my experience mirrors yours. Good fishing from 2013 to 2016 or so, and then a decline. Was skunked, or almost skunked, in fairly good conditions, my last two times there. 2019/2020-ish. Haven’t been back since. That was my favorite of the group. Wish it kept fishing like it did. But it too is choked with that red sand.

 

[Mike]

Have you ever tried the unnamed trib to Shearers near its confluence? I recall that having better gradient and for some reason don’t recall the amount of sand that is typical of the rest of those streams.

 

[Swattie87]

Have you ever tried the unnamed trib to Shearers near its confluence? I recall that having better gradient and for some reason don’t recall the amount of sand that is typical of the rest of those streams.

Yes. The UNT (up toward Camp Shand) is actually what I’m typically fishing when I refer to Shearers. It’s got about double the flow of the branch (along 72) that actually carriers the name, at their confluence. The UNT is better than the main stem. But it’s fishing poorly, and is full of sand again too.

 

[caddisflyer]

Have you ever tried the unnamed trib to Shearers near its confluence? I recall that having better gradient and for some reason don’t recall the amount of sand that is typical of the rest of those streams.

MANY years ago, like 40, I caught a nice Brook Trout with a hook jaw up there where it is running through the boulders near Camp Shand. In recent years its been Brown Trout exclusively for me in Shearers and that trib. I usually explore that branch of the stream when up there. Haven't in probably 4 years. I used to fish Shearers in early spring when black stoneflies came off and did well. Since the decline of the Furnace Hill streams I have shifted to fishing bigger water for bigger trout and places that have consistent hatches. I really doubt I will bother with those places anymore. I honestly do not have too much interest in Lancaster County trout fishing anymore. But I was passionate about it for many years.

 

[Swattie87]

Yeah. I’ve never caught a Brookie in Shearers or its UNT. I think that one is all Browns at this point. But yeah, haven’t had a good day on it in 5+ years, and have pretty much written it off. It’s a PITA to get to, requiring a couple mile hike from the SGL road on the hilltop to the southeast, without trespassing from the west along 72, or parking a vehicle on the TPike, which I was never wild about. Not worth it for what has amounted to a skunk or close to it the last couple times out. One of them was in good conditions too…September after a pretty good rain.

 

[caddisflyer]

Yeah. I’ve never caught a Brookie in Shearers or its UNT. I think that one is all Browns at this point. But yeah, haven’t had a good day on it in 5+ years, and have pretty much written it off. It’s a PITA to get to, requiring a couple mile hike from the SGL road on the hilltop to the southeast, without trespassing from the west along 72, or parking a vehicle on the TPike, which I was never wild about. Not worth it for what has amounted to a skunk or close to it the last couple times out. One of them was in good conditions too…September after a pretty good rain.

I had a similar experience last several times there. Not a fish caught or seen in good conditions. I had permission from a guy I worked with that lived off 72 who had land that ran up against the public land. Over the years I fished a lot of it. I don't think I ever saw anyone else fishing except at the one bridge down near 72. Glad I enjoyed it while it lasted. And hopefully there will be a resurgence. Trout streams do come and go. I have my eye on a sleeper stream right now that is definitely off the radar for most people and a few nice Browns have been showing up. It is a bigger stream too so might have some potential. If I told people where it was they wouldn't believe me. I was just thinking that it could become a world class stream someday. Not in my lifetime of course. There's still some adventure and mystery and surprises out there. My days of tromping through briars and long hikes wearing waders to fish trickles are coming to an end.

 

[riverwhy]

Doesn't the trib at Camp Shand flow into and out of a pond? Notice that there is also a pond (newly excavated?) South of the Pine Acres Campground. It looks like that one also has an inflow and outflow. It is also very open to the sun. My guess is that this one feeds Shearers or is near the source of the one that flows through Camp Shand. Then Look to your east at the HUGE area that has been deforested for that plot of land that contains perennial branch that feeds Walnut after it crosses 322. Bet it ran year-round until all the trees were cut and that large pond was created. You can see a fountain in the middle of it. Notice all the scorched grassy areas. Then look to the pond built at the headwaters of Walnut off Walnut Springs Road! I really think the ponds are the worst problems for these streams.
Sorry, I have not had any luck getting my snipping tool to work with google maps.