Central PA Troubles Tully was 65 degrees at 3pm

[vealboy]

Yeah, I think we were pretty successful eradicating it. I believe you were the one who suggested we paint the MFR stubs, but I could be wrong. It might have been Jeff K., who always scored the Rodeo for us. If you remember the Ferrence farm, where the main branch flowed through an open meadow, the river birch are all pretty big and offer a full canopy over the stream. I was there in June of 2021. Where the water used to hit 83 degrees on hot days, the day I went the air temp hit 91, the stream was 70. After a thunderstorm, I fished that section and caught two wild brownies. Be well.

It was Jeff K,I did a lot of the painting.I remember planting some hemlocks at the Ferrence farm which you got for me (being my favorite tree).I need to go take a look to see if they took hold.I believe in stream restoration over stream improvement devices,creating holding water does little to improve habitat.I'm not saying some devices don't help,but planting native trees and shrubs has many more long term benifits.Over my 45+ years of trout fishing I've seen many stream improvement devices that have not been maintained and are now worthless.Trees and shrubs only need to be planted and let nature take over.Just my opinion.

 

[Oregon_OwlII]

It was Jeff K,I did a lot of the painting.I remember planting some hemlocks at the Ferrence farm which you got for me (being my favorite tree).I need to go take a look to see if they took hold.I believe in stream restoration over stream improvement devices,creating holding water does little to improve habitat.I'm not saying some devices don't help,but planting native trees and shrubs has many more long term benifits.Over my 45+ years of trout fishing I've seen many stream improvement devices that have not been maintained and are now worthless.Trees and shrubs only need to be planted and let nature take over.Just my opinion.

The hemlocks didn't make it. Wrong terrain and soil composition for them.

 

[riverwhy]

The hemlocks didn't make it. Wrong terrain and soil composition for them.

Did the Adelgid get them? Mine are barely hanging on. It’s a shame because the birds, rabbits and squirrels really use them.

 

[jifigz]

Did the Adelgid get them? Mine are barely hanging on. It’s a shame because the birds, rabbits and squirrels really use them.

Why not treat them so they survive the adelgid?

 

[Bamboozle]

When our TU chapter was doing stream bank fencing on farms, we used a herbicide safe around water called Rodeo, and found that the safest application was to cut the invasive shrub at ground level and then paint the stub (usually in the fall when sap is being drawn to the roots. We used it on multiflora rose and typically 90% was killed in the first application (checked the following spring, and then we went after the last 10% the following fall. It was a much safer way to apply that broadcast spraying. More labor-intensive, but doable for our situation. There is also a generic form of Rodeo that works just as well, but is less expensive.

Yea, but is Rodeo safe for humans?

Both Rodeo & Round Up contain glyphosate.

I was going consider trying some on the ton of multiflora rose on my property, but I decided to pass...

 

[troutbert]

It is difficult to get good survival on planted trees in buffers. The overall average survival is probably 50% or less. In some places it's 30% or less. I know of a small buffer where they planted about 100 trees and only 6 survived.

So, it is very important to choose trees that are suitable for the site. Fnd someone someone with experience to help choose tree species for the particular conditions.

 

[riverwhy]

Yea, but is Rodeo safe for humans?

Both Rodeo & Round Up contain glyphosate.

I was going consider trying some on the ton of multiflora rose on my property, but I decided to pass...

There was recent executive order that prioritized domestic production of it. There has also been plenty of pushback against it.

 

[riverwhy]

Why not treat them so they survive the adelgid?

I have them treated with horticultural oil every fall. But even that kills pollinators and it’s not working very well. I may replace with some type of native shrubs.

 

[jifigz]

I have them treated with horticultural oil every fall. But even that kills pollinators and it’s not working very well. I may replace with some type of native shrubs.

Interesting. I pointed out to my neighbor that his tree was infested with the adelgid. He didn't know anything about it, but he treated his tree and it looks healthy as can be. No signs or evidence of the adelgid present. I am not sure what he treated with. As far as pollinators go, the hemlock would never be visited by pollinators, so I guess it would only harm the pollinators that just landed on the tree by chance.

 

[riverwhy]

I have some pollinating plants on either side of the stand. I also rake oak leaves under the trees which I know have overwintering pollinators. We switched from Good’s to Bartletts 3 years ago here in Hershey. Bartletts was cheaper but seems less effective. I used Goods and only did the HO every other year and they were healthy. Maybe it’s the size of the trees now or they are doing a lousy job.

 

[Oregon_OwlII]

Did the Adelgid get them? Mine are barely hanging on. It’s a shame because the birds, rabbits and squirrels really use them.

No, they were planted in a low, wet terrain that normally doesn't support that tree. Did not survive one year. This was around 2005.

 

[Oregon_OwlII]

Yea, but is Rodeo safe for humans?

Both Rodeo & Round Up contain glyphosate.

I was going consider trying some on the ton of multiflora rose on my property, but I decided to pass...

I wouldn't broadcast the spray. Paint cut stems in the Fall. You did not need a special training or certification to apply it, so it was not considered dangerous. Glyphosate is in all the food traditionally grown in your supermarket, in very small but traceable amounts. Chemists say it is safe. Juries in California think otherwise, but those cases involve landscapers broadcasting the spray.

As an aside, multiflora rose is a horrible invasive. Lost many a wader pair trying to get to the 'good' portion of a stream.

 

[Oregon_OwlII]

It is difficult to get good survival on planted trees in buffers. The overall average survival is probably 50% or less. In some places it's 30% or less. I know of a small buffer where they planted about 100 trees and only 6 survived.

So, it is very important to choose trees that are suitable for the site. Fnd someone someone with experience to help choose tree species for the particular conditions.

We had close to 90% survival rate, but the vegetation was chosen by field technicians versed in native plants for that region. You do have to know what you are doing.

 

[troutbert]

We had close to 90% survival rate, but the vegetation was chosen by field technicians versed in native plants for that region. You do have to know what you are doing.

That's a very high success rate. Do you remember what species were planted? And were you planting bare root trees or larger trees?

 

[Oregon_OwlII]

That's a very high success rate. Do you remember what species were planted? And were you planting bare root trees or larger trees?

Mostly larger trees (six to eight feet high). It was a mix of river birch, sycamores, silver maples, some kind of lowland oak, at least one boxwood, probably a few others. These were planted in floodplains that were fenced-off cow pastures. We also planted multiple shrubs and willows to stabilize banks. I think most were obtained from the Octarao Native Nursery.