New Jersey removes brown trout to restore wild brook trout populations

[sixfootfenwick]

I find it interesting, ok silly, that people on here conclude NJ is doing such a better job than PA because they did one project on a single stream. It appeared to have the desired effect of reducing BT substantially but what's the longterm prospects?
Can some internet sleuths find out how many streams and miles of stream NJ fish manages versus PA? Sure they can dump a lot of resources on this project because they have less competing options.

Yeah, PA has been awesome sauce at restoration of brook trout populations.🤣

Brook trout restoration: non-native species removal and brook trout reintroduction — EBTJV

Science and case studies behind brook trout restoration.

easternbrooktrout.org

Take a guess on 1 of the 5.
We are stretched so thin, so many resources, we can't even try it once, any where.

Even on recently reclaimed mine acid watersheds where it would be easy. Our resources are so stretched we just stock them with expensive fish instead .👏

 

[Mike]

But I share your concern about bucket biologists. Except it's not invasive browns we need to worry about. I've seen some claims within some non trout-centric groups where people are boasting about moving their favorite invasive sportfish to new waterways. Maybe they're just posturing, but even if a fraction of it is true, it's scary

Trout are commonly moved or stocked by anglers based on some of the places that stocked trout show up.

As for fish of various species being moved from one waterway to another, it’s common and easily discovered in man-made lakes when complete drawdowns for dam repairs occur, when fish population surveys are conducted in such restored impoundments, and when some of the fish species found don’t match the stocking records. Heck, just read in this forum’s history about the various places that snakeheads have shown up in Pa and how their range has continued to expand.

And then there are the individuals who find a fish species congregated at the base of a dam (and I assume waterfalls as well) and then toss the fish over or transport the fish around the dam.

 

[lycoflyfisher]

Mike, or anyone who may know, isn't it a stated objective in the wild trout plan to do continuous surveys on the same watersheds to understand population fluctuations? Genuinely, I'm not sure if I'm remembering that correctly.

If it is a stated objective, they could always remove invasive species during those surveys. I'm sure the frequency of surveys wouldn't be great so the efficacy might not be there. But it's a thought.

I would think if the desired results were being achieved, interest wouldn't fade. It seems like native fish interest is at a high point. Hopefully more fisheries with large native fish would hold interest.

I would hope native fish would always be the priority and that angler ideals wouldn't influence management policies but to hope is foolish.

There are efforts to restore native aquatic life around the state. They just don't get talked about as much as stocked trout.

‘Groundbreaking’ stocking brings freshwater mussels to the Kiski and Clarion rivers

More than a dozen biologists and volunteers waded into the Kiski and Clarion rivers last week to do what has never been done before – stock native...

www.post-gazette.com

There has been a lot of work to reintroduce native, non-game fish into the Clarion River which are also host species to mussels. Some rare and endangered species too.

Clarion River Mussel Relocation project | Visit PA Great Outdoors

By Adam McCully Since 1932, the Western Pennsylvania Conservancy (WPC) has been protecting Pennsylvania’s most prized resource: its inherent natural beauty. Chances are that you’ve seen the fruits of their labor yourself, though you may not have realized it. Whether you’ve already enjoyed the...

visitpago.com

 

[wildtrout2]

Trout are commonly moved or stocked by anglers based on some of the places that stocked trout show up.

No doubt, and by home owners too. I fish a remote Class A wild brown trout stream where I once caught a 17" rainbow. It's the ONLY stocked trout I ever caught in this stream in 22 years. I'm certain it was stocked by the owner of the property at it's headwaters, as it's the only house up there.

After catching it, and I have to say it put up a really good fight, I put a length of 6lb test line through it's lower jaw and tied it to a streamside root system to keep it alive until I was done fishing for the day.
When I returned after fishing, it was still alive and well. I took it home for dinner, and I have to admit, it was one delicious trout!

 

[dudemanspecial]

Anywhere you have a popular stocked creek or river that is in an area with many camps and small creeks around (Think First Fork, Pine, Kettle just as examples) there will no doubt be lots of guys that pull them out of the stocked waters to put them in the creeks by their camp. It's rampant where my camp is. They dam up the creeks to make holes and dump them in there.

Edit: to add to this one time we were fishing a stocked creek by my camp a couple years ago and a sportsmans club rolled up with a trout tanker and started dumping fish in. Guy said they had a derby and had way too many left so they were driving around to unload them. I am sure they filled up all of their camp holes on unstocked waters before they dumped the rest in the stocked streams.

The creek they held their derby on is stocked by the state and is about as wide as Logan branch. Imagine how many fish they had to put in there to have had "too many left" 🤣

 

[Bamboozle]

Anywhere you have a popular stocked creek or river that is in an area with many camps and small creeks around (Think First Fork, Pine, Kettle just as examples) there will no doubt be lots of guys that pull them out of the stocked waters to put them in the creeks by their camp. It's rampant where my camp is. They dam up the creeks to make holes and dump them in there.

A couple of years back, I found a damned-up hole by a cabin on a Class A in Clinton that is a tributary to a "popular stocked creek." This pool was loaded with fish. I caught a ton of them and as it turned out, they were all stocked fish.

However, somehow accidentally as I was releasing them, they all flopped out of my hand on the downstream side of the dam... 😉

 

[sixfootfenwick]

https://easternbrooktrout.org/science-data/ebtjv-assessment-data/eastern-brook-trout-restoration-summary-table

Should annual stocking of hatchery brook trout below Nealy Road be considered a translocation?

A couple of years back, I found a damned-up hole by a cabin on a Class A in Clinton that is a tributary to a "popular stocked creek." This pool was loaded with fish. I caught a ton of them and as it turned out, they were all stocked fish.

However, somehow accidentally as I was releasing them, they all flopped out of my hand on the downstream side of the dam... 😉

It's always better to maximize damage.

 

[rustbeltwilds]

we have the 2nd highest paid legislators here in pa and we dont have silicon valley lol lol. That being said. I love pa. But cant stand the state run mafia !!!!!

 

[sarce]

I find it interesting, ok silly, that people on here conclude NJ is doing such a better job than PA because they did one project on a single stream. It appeared to have the desired effect of reducing BT substantially but what's the longterm prospects?
Can some internet sleuths find out how many streams and miles of stream NJ fish manages versus PA? Sure they can dump a lot of resources on this project because they have less competing options.

Well, if PFBC has done something similar maybe they ought to promote it and educate the masses. Seems they weren't a fan of the Bells Gap project which would have potentially been on par with this single NJ project...

 

[sixfootfenwick]

Well, if PFBC has done something similar maybe they ought to promote it and educate the masses. Seems they weren't a fan of the Bells Gap project which would have potentially been on par with this single NJ project...

There has been zero projects with invasive species being removed. None. I shared the link earlier.

There has only been two projects aimed at "expanding, establishing or reintroduction" of brook trout in PA.
1 failed, 1 "worked"

The failure was putting brook trout fingerlings in a creek that was too warm. Limestone Run

The "success" was Big Spring. They claim the restoration of the creek and the "translocation" of annual brook trout stocked below the restored area expanded or enhanced the population.
The restored habitat expanded DO in the water and also favored brook trout. That's it. Nothing more. That's why the population is greater.

The "translocation" of annual stockings of brook trout in the approved trout water does nothing but hurt the population either through bad genetics or possible disease.
It's a joke. Especially considering it was their hatchery that destroyed it.

NJ had one "failure" that is still on going, so it may turn around. They took a pollution event and tried to use the aftermath to reintroduce brook trout from wild stocks.

The success is the one discussed in the OP.

It's a tie I guess on the scoreboard but NJ has better methods and will likely pass on by PA.
Despite PA having multitudes more opportunity and multitudes of more resources we choose to waste on one of the very things destroying reintroductions.

 

[troutbert]

Has NJ ended stocking over native brook trout?

 

[sixfootfenwick]

Has NJ ended stocking over native brook trout?

Im not sure of the answer to this but here are a few resources:

https://dep.nj.gov/njfw/fishing/freshwater/wild-trout-stream-regulations/

Trout Fishing Regulations - New Jersey Freshwater Fishing

General Trout Fishing Regulations Brook, Brown & Rainbow Trout (and their hybrids and strains) *ALL BROOK TROUT CAUGHT WITHIN THE BROOK TROUT CONSERVATION…

www.eregulations.com

I'm guessing they don't in the brook trout conservation area.
We should really consider areas such as these and the 9" minimum length overall would be smart.

 

[sixfootfenwick]

Has NJ ended stocking over native brook trout?

Ok I found the answer.
NJ does not stock wild brook trout streams

 

[JeffK]

BTW, I interned in 2015 under Sean Crouse, chief of freshwater fisheries in NJ and the guy holding the brookie in the last picture. He is a huge supporter of native fisheries which is a real struggle in a crowded state like NJ especially with the drought flood yo-yo we have seen lately. We have one brookie stream that is 3 miles from Manhattan. He gets kidded because he wants to lead more efforts to protect all threatened native fish including sunfish species unique to the Pine Barrens that are threatened by the aquarium trade. Brookies get a lot of love, but small colorful sunfish do not.

It all begins at the top and NJ has had chiefs that prioritize wild trout since the 70's. Starting in the 70's Bob Solwedel protected 32 streams as wild trout streams with no stocking and limited take. It was an effort to protect wild trout, but as much if not more he wanted to popularize wild trout and develop a base of fishermen who appreciated wild and native trout. In my memory there weren't many wild trout fans back then and I think he did get more people aware of wild trout possibilities close to home. Then Lisa Barno stopped stocking brook trout and only stocked rainbows to protect interbreeding with wild fish stocks. Under her tenure Pat Hamilton did DNA sampling that indicated native brookie populations in many NJ streams. Balancing the demands of the fishing community in the face of ever dropping license sales is a tough job. But for the last 50 years NJ chiefs have tried to do what they can to support native brookies.

There have been wins and losses in NJ. Stream restoration work on the Musconetcong, one of NJ's big five trout streams, has made wild brookies a common catch if you know where to look. However, two of the Musconetcong tribs that were brookie streams when I was a kid hold only browns today. On the other hand, the South Branch of the Raritan has seen a collapse of wild fish, which were 60% browns/40%brookies, as siltation has become crazy with development and too many floods and the water temperatures going up with hotter weather and less springs (sounds like Little Lehigh). NJ is on the edge of the brookie range so warming water is a real issue for their survival here.

 

[wildtrout2]

Ok I found the answer.
NJ does not stock wild brook trout streams

TB's moving to NJ. Seriously, that's really nice to hear

 

[troutbert]

Ok I found the answer.
NJ does not stock wild brook trout streams

That's good news. Where did you find the answer?

And do you know what criteria they use to define what is a wild brook trout stream?

That is a question that often comes up when discussing this topic in PA.

 

[nymphingmaniac]

I find it interesting, ok silly, that people on here conclude NJ is doing such a better job than PA because they did one project on a single stream. It appeared to have the desired effect of reducing BT substantially but what's the longterm prospects?
Can some internet sleuths find out how many streams and miles of stream NJ fish manages versus PA? Sure they can dump a lot of resources on this project because they have less competing options.

since the Pirates are getting pounded by the pale hose, I poked around. NJ lists 11 wild brook trout streams on its website. They call them brook trout dominant. However, a brook (what PA call runs ) I regularly caught lots of brook trout in is not listed. last I heard they are still there. the rub is this brook is a tributary of a moderately stocked stream. There is no impediments to migration of stocked trout into this tributary.

 

[sixfootfenwick]

That's good news. Where did you find the answer?

And do you know what criteria they use to define what is a wild brook trout stream?

That is a question that often comes up when discussing this topic in PA.

I think that we purposely try to muddy up the situation with questions like that.

I think NJ is on to something with "brook trout dominant."

Here in PA we have no issue classifying something "Class A wild brook trout". Sounds like a brook trout stream to me. I'm sure non class A streams could meet the criteria put forth as brook trout dominant too. They sound like brook trout streams to me also.

I think I was right in my initial assessment. NJ is doing more than PA to specifically manage the brook trout populations it has.

 

[JeffK]

BTW, the brook trout is the NJ state freshwater fish. IMHO, big issue NJ has for brook trout is not regulation or management but environmental changes. NJ is at the edge of the brook trout range so they are already stressed so development and warming water are real issues. Along one stream a large apartment complex was built and the sudden influx of warm water coming off the parking lots after a summer thunderstorms put a hurting on the brookies downstream. All brookie streams are rated as C1, meaning no development within 150' among other things. But with over 1000 people per square mile maintaining cold water is tough.

The brown situation is tough as well. Removing browns in a tiny stream has been demonstrated but placing barriers so they don't come back is tough. Then adding barriers prevents brookies moving around as well. NJ was marking brookies in the tiny trickles in the upper South Branch Raritan to see how much they move among the different streams. I don't know how that worked but populations are more secure if they move around. One Musconetcong trib with brookies near the rte 80 crossing has an ugly rock stretch that protects rte 80 from erosion and isolates the brookies above it. Stream restoration would increase habitat for brook trout, but also allow browns to come in. What is the correct answer? Two of my favorite brookie tribs 50 years ago are now brown trout dominant which barriers might have prevented. But does isolating small populations cause problems as well?

 

[troutbert]

Here's some good information on NJ brook trout management.

https://dep.nj.gov/njfw/conservation/freshwater/brook-trout-protective-regulations/

I wonder how other states manage brook trout. It probably varies a lot from state to state.