Yellow Breeches, Cumberland Co. 12/19/10

[Biggie]

Fished on Sunday, form 1-3 p.m. Fished the upper regs. section, nymphing only. Didn't see any risers and only one other fisherman. 1 nice hook jaw brownie landed and one rainbow lost on a long release. the brownie bit a #16 prince. Water was at a nice flow. All in all a real nice day to be out. BTW only could spot 1 fish in the run............what happen to all those fish?

 

[Fishidiot]

Thanks for the report.

The topic of the run and its recent lack of fish has generated some discussion here on the board.

http://www.paflyfish.com/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=10657&forum=4&post_id=126186#forumpost126186

I don't know why the run doesn't hold fish like it used to. I have a theory that it may be connected to the drawdown of the lake recently - but I really don't know. We've tried stocking and the fish just don't hold in the run like they used to.

 

[PaulG]

It's a darn shame what happened to the run. I know a lot of the older guys, that can't fish the main stream anymore, use to rely on fishing there.

Fishidiot, might have a good Idea there. I do know there's a lot of poching goes on there, which might be one of the reasons. I hope they figure it out soon... Im getting to be one of those old guys myself!

PaulG

 

[RonB]

I was there in November and noticed the same thing. I used to see a lot of fish in the run and did not see any there in November

 

[buffalo]

Biggie,
Believe the club will be stocking in early January, not sure if they put any in the run.
Also , heard from a couple locals that the runs below the lake and above the bridge at Little Buffalo still had some nice fish as late as October, that’s real close to you.

Buffalo

 

[RonB]

I live right over the hill from Little Buffalo....Will have to check that out

 

[Biggie]

Buffalo and RonB, if the Lil Buff doesn't freeze over, it's not bad fishing above the bridge all winter. But don't tell anyone! 🙂

 

[j_man]

The smorgasboard of food disappeared in the run and so did the fish.

 

[RonB]

Biggie,
You graduated a year ahead of me in high school. Never knew you were into fly fishing.......

 

[troutbert]

Fishidiot wrote:
Thanks for the report.

The topic of the run and its recent lack of fish has generated some discussion here on the board.

http://www.paflyfish.com/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=10657&forum=4&post_id=126186#forumpost126186

I don't know why the run doesn't hold fish like it used to. I have a theory that it may be connected to the drawdown of the lake recently - but I really don't know. We've tried stocking and the fish just don't hold in the run like they used to.

What's the theory? We like theories!

 

[boss_steb]

Ron B and Biggie,

When did you guys graduate...Newport river Rat here myself...I may be old by your standards...graduated in 84...

Boss

 

[Fishidiot]

troutbert wrote:
What's the theory? We like theories!

Well, as you know, "the Run" had always held a staggering number of fish - and year round. I suppose about two or three years ago I started seeing fewer fish. Then when they drew the lake down to fix the spillway the fish all but disappeared (except for a handful). My theory is that the lake had produced a massive influx of nutrients creating an unnaturally high trout population not unlike the Big Spring "Ditch" back in the hatchery days. Since the lake has re-filled, the weed growth returned very quickly and I'd hoped the trout would come back, especially after the recent warm summer. However, this has not been the case. I don't know if the macros bounced back in the lake as quick as the weeds. I've been meaning to do some weed pulling and unscientific bug checks of Children's Lake - just haven't got around to it. If the chironomids and scuds haven't returned than perhaps we should give the trout more time. If on the other hand the bugs are back and the trout haven't returned....then I don't know. Sure there's been poaching but there's always been poaching in the Run. Some folks a awhile ago blamed a pair of eagles for eating all the fish but I now think with as much time as has passed that that theory can be scrapped. And of course I'd noted a decline in fish before they drew down the lake.
I don't know. It's disappointing and a bit of a blow to the local economy as the Run has long attracted out of state anglers.

 

[troutbert]

I recommend that you contact the PFBC and/or DEP and have them check it out.

If the spillway has been altered, could it be that there is now less oxygenation of the water as it flows out of the lake? And if there is less water in the lake because it's drawn down, maybe the oxygen is getting sucked out by rotting vegetation in the lake?

Maybe the springs feeding the lake have got polluted by something. Stranger things have happened.

I'd get the pros on the case.

 

[Fishidiot]

The newly re-built spillway is - I think - better than the previous version in that it actually sends more water down into the Run rather then the other outflow by the pool. If anything, oxygen levels should be better.

I stopped there today while doing some last minute shopping. I didn't have enough time to put on my waders and get weeds out of the lake but I did pull some weeds and rocks outa the Run itself: There's food there - plenty of scuds and not just pollution tolerants- there were some caddis and mayfly nymphs too. I don't get it. It's apparently not a food issue although I still think there may be a different water chemistry and change in nutrient load might be a factor. I saw a couple trout in the plunge pool below the culvert and a rainbow down by the footbridge - otherwise no trout. Mine was the only car there. In the past, even on a cold winter weekday, there would be at least a couple guys fishing.

Some folks think the problem is habitat. I'm skeptical as the form of the Run hasn't changed much in the last 20+ years. There is a plan to do some habitat improvement later this year.

 

[RonB]

boss_steb,
You would be young by our standards. I graduated in 70

 

[albud1962]

Its the Herons. The run is very shallow and I always see a heron working it in the evenings. They take alot of fish and I think there is evidence to support this.

 

[pafisherman]

I would think it is a combination of many or all of the things mentioned that is the answer. Poaching, conditions, Herons and habitat. Any by itself would not cause the pretty much total loss of fish. In my opinion some habitiat improvement is the answer to getting fish back in the Run on a consistant basis. I dont think all the fish are eaten by Herons or poached. Many move into the main creek due to poor habitat. If the habitat is good the fish will stay. Some deeper water with holding areas will make it possible to stay out of the way of the Herons, and not be visible to the poachers. I am pretty confident the water quality is good and the food is there so that makes good habitat holdinng areas as the need.

Bill A

 

[Maurice]

How has the habitat degraded? It had "improved" several years ago when the deflectors were added.... perhaps the eradication of the Japanese knotweed had a little to do with it. The removal of streamside vegetation and and therefor cover puts fish at risk of predation.

This would be a good candidate for a residency study.....

but to do so you would have to stock fish in there.

I still say that the reason for the lack of fish inthe run is it is not stocked like it used to be.....lots were stocked, lots of people used the run, there was little opportunity for predators and poaching because of the traffic.

Now with less fish stocked, there are less people, more opportunity for poaching and predators and its a shadow of itself.

FI, what is the previous and present stocking numbers and by whom? Not looking for dates or conjecture, just want to know if the numbers have significantly decreased. I think this is where the answers lie.

 

[Fishidiot]

Maurice wrote:
FI, what is the previous and present stocking numbers and by whom? Not looking for dates or conjecture, just want to know if the numbers have significantly decreased. I think this is where the answers lie.

I don't know. It's been a few years since I've participated in stocking YB. Unfortunately, the PFBC doesn't advertise fish numbers for pre-season stocking anymore. Moreover, the fish stocked in the Run are usually part of the allocation for the YB reg water and how many went into the Run was a bit at the wim of the guys stocking. I remember a few years ago a bunch were dumped into the Run due to ice down at the confluence with the main stem YB. And of course, the area gets additional stocking from the YBA club throughout the season and specially for the youth camp in June. Maybe someone here on the forum who's a member of the YBA can provide specific numbers.
While there may indeed be fewer fish, I don't think this explains why they disappear. Stocking numbers have been generally lower now for several years but the Run always held a decent number of fish until maybe two or three years ago. I didn't fish the main stem YB much this summer or fall due to conditions but there were plenty of fish in it last year and spring of 2010 so I don't think stocking is a problem. The YB is getting fish, they just don't stay in the Run.

 

[JackM]

I think the run became so popular as a fish hangout that none of them want to go there anymore because of the crowding.