Has anyone else noticed how the water levels in SouthEast Pa creeks have been typically lower than historical average - as compared with the averages that the on-line charts illustrate? Ridley, Chester and Valley have all been lower, and its not just when we had that dry spell in the 2nd half of 2024. I can’t see on-line data from Pickering or Darby, but their levels have also been low. I keep records of levels of these creeks and their fishing details on days when I go fishing - so I can predict how fishing will be on future dates. My charts indicate that the water levels are all systemically lower than 3-10 years ago. Thanks, and stay warm this winter !
Water Levels in SEPA over the last few years
- Thread starter springer1
- Start date
tjsingle
Well-known member
Yes and no - on the flip side in 2022 we had a high water year @ Valley with flows above the median for much of the year. Like all things, it ebbs and flows.
sarce
Well-known member
- Joined
- Feb 16, 2013
- Messages
- 1,664
It's been the same story here in central MD as well. The fall 2023 brook trout spawn failed because of extreme low flows, and it's only been marginally wetter since. It's a multi year weather pattern that sends low pressure racing off the coast instead of slowing down and wrapping heavy rain into our area. It's been very hard for any storm to produce an inch of rain for several years now, not counting random summer thunderstorms. Eventually it will change, hopefully soon, but who knows.
Troutmeister
Active member
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2018
- Messages
- 197
I can attest to the fact the water level has been down the last few years in Lehigh county. The Jordan creek has dried up in spots it never did before and for longer periods of time.
I live near the Jordan in a little hollow with a tiny creek flowing through my yard. My well used to overflow all the time. Had to put a fitting in the top of the well casing and pipe it into the creek. There were long periods this past summer and in 2024 when nothing flowed out of the pipe, so the water table has to be down.
I live near the Jordan in a little hollow with a tiny creek flowing through my yard. My well used to overflow all the time. Had to put a fitting in the top of the well casing and pipe it into the creek. There were long periods this past summer and in 2024 when nothing flowed out of the pipe, so the water table has to be down.
Maybe the Pa Stream Stats web page and tools would be helpful for streams lacking gauges.
My impression is that you are using average daily flow values from gauge sites, which is good. You may also want to check out Q7-10 values (stated as “Q seven ten”) if you have not been doing so already. For anyone unfamiliar with that metric, it is also used in permitting processes for discharges and water withdrawals. It’s the 7 consecutive day low flow that has occurred in a 10 year period. It’s considered by many aquatic biologists to be a stressful flow for fish and other aquatic life.
Which makes me wonder what, if any, proposed water source will be for the proposed data center site near the Jordan.
Last edited:
AndyP
Active member
I used to fish a section of Crum Creek in my teenage years. It was leased by a club but since i baled hay for the farmer i was allowed to fish as long as i used a fly rod. That section of Crum Creek is half the size today as it was back then. and this is still a very "rural" area of the watershed.
Has the wild Brown Trout population declined since the early to mid-1990’s in your view? Part of the creek was pretty good back then.
I’m sure there are govt organization (state or federal) employees with written job descriptions that include responsibility for the health of these creeks - but I don’t know who they are. I wonder what statistics they keep relative to creek flows and the actions taken associated with that.
I know there’s obviously rainfall related factors, but my fishing records (with comments on metrics from the creek monitors and fishing conditions) go back 9 years and these local creeks have definitely been lower than normal even in times of normal rain. Additionally, the creeks rise and fall much faster after rains. I wonder if there are govt positions with job descriptions that are responsible for tracking and reporting (and maybe mitigating) on this.
I know there’s obviously rainfall related factors, but my fishing records (with comments on metrics from the creek monitors and fishing conditions) go back 9 years and these local creeks have definitely been lower than normal even in times of normal rain. Additionally, the creeks rise and fall much faster after rains. I wonder if there are govt positions with job descriptions that are responsible for tracking and reporting (and maybe mitigating) on this.
Last edited:
Article in PSU Extension's Watershed Winds talks about it.
extension.psu.edu
We are in Hot Water – Streams and Rivers are Heating Up
Warming trends affect streams and rivers in Pennsylvania.
extension.psu.edu
Bamboozle
Well-known member
Just upstream of PA Route 3?
FWIW - Newtown Square is almost unrecognizable to me the last few times I drove through there...
As a kid I fished Crum and spent a lot of time further west on Yarnall Run and Ridley Creek upstream of the mouth of Yarnell Run. NOT for trout, but whatever fish were in the mood to take my bait.
I've been to both locations since that time and both streams APPEAR smaller, however they are SO overgrown it is really hard to tell how different they are from my youth.
One theory I have is when I fished there, a lot of the property surrounding the streams was only a few decades removed from being actively farmed agricultural land and the widening of West Chester Pike which occurred post 1954 when the West Chester trolley was cut back to Westgate Hills.
When I was a kid access was easy, most of the surrounding land was easily traversed and the streams seemed wider. I also remember a LOT of bank erosion, especially on Ridley Creek upstream of Delchester Road to West Chester Pike which obviously made things a LOT bigger.
I don't know what the situation is today in regards to bank erosion...
Regardless, the amount of development in and around my old stomping grounds saddens me...
tomgamber
Well-known member
As long as this cold and snow is supposed to hang around, it should be a good spring for the streams.
Oregon_OwlII
Well-known member
I can't identify the actual job position, but I did know that there were monitoring wells drilled along the Perkiomen near the village of Palm to measure groundwater. Years ago, there was concern that it was dropping. I think it was the county that sunk the wells, but I can't be positive. From personal observation (last there in 2023), and videos of the Perkiomen where it enters Green Lane Reservoir, it sure looks like water levels have been in steady decline. GLR was exceedingly low this past fall.
AndyP
Active member
I fished from Grubb Mill Rd. all the way thru past the old covered bridge on Goshen Rd.. Once in a particularly heavy rain my brothers and I floated in inner tubes from Grubb Mill and Barr Rd. all the way to Springton Reservoir only to get thrown out by the Aqua Pa guy who patrolled in a little Boston Whaler back then. Fun times. A lot of the headwaters area is still preserved as open space but there has been so much other development that I think it has effected the daily flow rates. Good memories for a kid who would be told to get out of the house and don't come back until dinner ! I was lucky to grow up there.
Bamboozle
Well-known member
If it was an Aqua, PA guy who hassled you, that was post-2004 and WAY later than when I was fishing that part of Crum.
BTW - As kids we used to camp on weekends in the backwaters upstream of Gradyville Road. 😉
BTW - As kids we used to camp on weekends in the backwaters upstream of Gradyville Road. 😉
AndyP
Active member
This would have been 1978-1980ish time frame. Not sure when Aqua be came Aqua, I know thats the current name, but they had somebody there who motored up, cussed us out and kicked us out !! Lol..
Springton has (had?) some huge strippers, largemouth, and catfish. I think I remember lake trout, but it’s been a while. A buddy used to fish the lighthouse from the dam at night back in the day. He knew the girls at the old Rose Tree Wawa. He would take a Polaroid picture of his largest fish, then have the Wawa girls weigh them on their scale. The scale would print out the weight, date, and time on a sticker that he would adhere to the back of the picture.
There are sensors on the dam now, so unless you want a visit from Newtown and/or Upper Providence PD, don’t risk it.
There are sensors on the dam now, so unless you want a visit from Newtown and/or Upper Providence PD, don’t risk it.
Bamboozle
Well-known member
Aqua took over in 2004...
Your experiences were WAY before Aqua and in the Philadelphia Suburban Water Company days...
The "ranger" in those days was named "John Carson" and he lived off Gradyville Road between 252 and Bishop Hollow Road in the vicinity of Hunter Run...
He chased my a$$ off Springton at least 1,365 in that era.... 😉
