Valley Creek, Chester County, 12/26/20

I'm a presentation guy. For me it comes down to this, fish will eat something that looks like their food if its being presented in a natural manor. For me that means a drag free drift at the appropriate depth(I fish streamers this way too) High water, stained water, low light etc all makes the fish more forgiving when it comes to presentation and fly selection.

High pressured holes are typically easily accessible, have deep water, good cover and food supply. Fish in these spots see alot of flies presented and know exactly what a natural does as it makes its way down stream. Big fish are in those holes but they are very familiar with their environment.

I used to be able to fish whenever I wanted, a wife and two kids have changed that. My days to fish are determined before I have any idea on conditions and come hell or low water I'm fishing(mostly tail waters).
I've found that fishing in "bad conditions" has really sharpened my skills. I definitely find it easier to catch more and bigger fish when the water is up/stained. However fishing in clear low water has made me a better fisherman. Just my 2 cents.
 
I used to fish 200 + days.

As said just above me, life will slow you down.
Opportunistic simply means taking the time when you can.

As far as driving great distances not being needed, i agree and disagree.
At times water is too low in one region or too high in another.
One year i was fishing Big Spring in sunny weather, while the entire southeast was experiencing a hurricane.


My point was simple. Opportunistic takes on a different meaning at different stages of peoples lives. Especially as you get older.


Ryan, im with you on the low and clear.
Fish enough spring creeks and low and clear seem ideal.:lol:
Both make you better fisherman unlike perfect conditions.


 
By definition the angler that looks at weather reports, water conditions etc is just as opportunistic as the guy who runs out the door because his wifes appointment got cancelled and now she can watch the kids.

You fish when you can.
 
All good points. Agree about fishing when and where you can and it making you a better fisherman. Also think there are things more important than fishing. When I was a young Dad I was too obsessed and probably should have paid more attention to work and family. I realize it now.
Does Valley run directly into river or is there a falls or anything that might block movement of fish from river? Just curious.
 
Yes it has a dam just up river from the mouth.
Never been there but fish migration there was a topic years ago.

Wonder if it was removed. Doubtful because i seem to remember a historical significance.
 
Super low fish density bellow the dam compared to above. Mike has said multiple time on here that come from the schuykill in the spring late summer and hang in the area bellow the damn but I have never encountered them.
 
Marq, they used to back in the 1980’s and the early 1990’s, but I don’t know if they continued that pattern of behavior after that. The numbers of big trout 16 inches to perhaps 23 inches were unreal, but as I recall from the data sheet perhaps a 20-30 percent were thin, most likely having waited too long to leave the river. They go off feed when the water warms and start utilizing fat and later muscle to survive, just like humans when we are starving. You see the same thing with normal size stockies when they are in warm streams come June and July. As I recall the Valley Ck sampling occurred in June, but it could have been very early July.
 
Mike were the fish primarily wild browns or holdover that were flushed out of other streams and ended up in valley?
 
Primarily wild, but a number of large stockies as well that probably came from stocked tribs located up and down the Schuylkill.
 
I feel like hurricane Floyd in 1998 ended the big fish migration from the Schuylkill into Valley. If I recall it was usually the late May time frame when you could actually see the fish try to jump the falls in lower Valley. The higher the water conditions the better for the fish to try and jump. It was a pretty awesome sight to witness. Since then the area above the falls has really filled in (sediment). Just like the rest of Valley and degradation despite the great efforts of the local TU chapter.

In my opinion Hurricane Floyd also did a number on the sulphur hatch on Valley. It used to be a lot more robust.
 
I remember when I lived in Exton in 1995. I work at Cocalico High School and I moved in with my wife the year before we go married. It was a great year. I would either make a beeline to the Tully on my way home or to Valley. There were some awesome hatches on both streams. I remember being absolutely shocked at the amount of fish in Valley rising to Sulfurs in water so thin you couldn't believe the fish were there. My wife's switching from evening to day shift kind of wrecked all that! 🙂
 
Interesting thought about Hurricane Floyd. Mama Nature can be a cruel mistress. Regarding the stacked up big guys and the historical dam, the net height of the water flow is less now that part of the dam has deteriorated. There's now a good foot or two less to have to jump than 30 years ago. Counterintuitively, I believe that the fact that the Schuylkill is cleaner now also reduced the migration of the big trouts during and after big rains. The one year my personal journey caused me to hunt big 2 foot plus trouts, I flew to Montana twice and California once on the quest. Then ffishing the dam outflow that year, I landed and measured 6 trouts from 22 to 26". The biggest one was kind of slim, but at the time I didn't think anything of it. Anyway, that cured my big trouts mania. I never felt desperate enough to go for them at night.
 
What about the introduction of flatheads to the river.I’ve seen them pile up bellow feeder creeks and destroy anything the came within reach.
 
Now I know why the last two times I drove by Valley, there were guys with spinning rods throwing jerk baits when I hadn't seen that since before the last sewage spill. I thought that they had just received new gear for Christmas. Then I saw this post today. They appreciated the heads-up I assume.

The reason that all you had ever heard about Valley was

" It amazes me that the general perception of Valley Creek is that big fish don’t exist in the stream. Just simply untrue. Are the big fish in the stream extremely smart and hard to find due to the high angling pressure, often low, gin clear water conditions, and lack of big fish habitat? Absolutely, and under normal circumstances along with the average anglers approach to fishing Valley Creek, the big fish are certainly almost impossible to see and/or catch. In my fly fishing experience, with much of my time being spent on Valley Creek, I have learned that it pays to try something different and do things in ways that are NOT what is the easiest or most obvious. How many pheasant tails or black zebra midges do you think a large brown trout has seen in its 10+ year lifespan? That well worn path that leads right to a prime looking bend in the creek with plenty of casting room? You spend an extended period of time every outing in that spot with no success just because it looks too good not to give up a fish or two right? Honestly how many “perfect” days (hint hint) in a year do you think an angler is sitting in the exact same spot thinking the exact same thing as you are? These fish learn to avoid predators and get better at it throughout their lives. The big fish have learned to avoid finding their way onto the average angler’s lines better than smaller fish."

is because those of us who knew that there were big fish in Valley also know that the worst thing you can do to Valley is publicize how good the fishing there can be on streamers. In fact, many of us have lied about that stream for years to keep the crowding and pressure down. It is the closest wild trout stream to the fifth largest municipality in the United States in a state where fly-fishing (and fishing in general) is very popular. The fishable part of it is only a couple of miles long. We know better. We've seen what happens. You're about to. Not everyone who peruses these forums is a fly-fisherman or a good actor with regard to a resource. When you put a place like Valley on social media, it gets pressured (and harvested) to the point where the only fish people think are there are the little ones, because that's going to be a lot closer to the truth after a few more weeks. Those boys with the Rapalas and Mepps spinners will pound that stream every day after school or on their lunch break for months after seeing this post and comments. The guys from 20 miles (and further) away will drive there to throw their jerkbaits, as well. Many of them will keep big fish, because they don't know or care about the rules, or they just want to take it home to show everyone what a big fish they caught and what a great fisherman they are. Maybe one will make a YouTube. Take a look at what's happening up at the Bushkill right now. That poor stream. And it's 20 times bigger than Valley if not more. Simply put, a lot of people ain't right. It's happened before to Valley after these kinds of posts, and plenty of people on this site know this. I know, because I posted very similar comments to those posts as I'm posting to this one. I'm sure plenty will tell me that I'm wrong, but this will be about the fifth time in 15 years that I've seen a post this likely to cause a Gold Rush at Valley, and the other 4 times, I was not proven wrong.

Look, we get it: you had a great day and a breakthrough, and you thought that you must be the only one who had discovered this information without realizing that many of us already knew it and lied about it for years to keep secret. Me for 20 years this year. Some of us counted on that to be able to put less experienced fishermen on wild fish from time to time. I'm genuinely glad that you had a great day and must now adore Valley, as many of us do. But you didn't have to share everything but your blood type with everyone in the world who can read English and has internet. No hard feelings, but please, in the future, try to remember that Valley is a fragile resource, and that usually, its secrets are hard-won and treated as such.
 
SurfCowboy,
Do you really think every one in the world has a paflyfish account and reads these posts? That my one post of a decent sized fish has brought out all the jerkbait treble hook guys and they all beelined it to valley creek? And that these guys will bring the demise of the creek? Have some perspective, I’ve fished the creek for years and have seen plenty of spin fisherman and guess what? There’s nothing against the law to throw a jerk bait in valley. You don’t own it and neither do I. And you know what else? If anybody saw my post as a reason to go fish valley creek, they will never catch big fish anyway because it takes a great amount of time and effort to do. Something a guy who needs to see a picture of a big fish to go out and fish will never do.

To think Valley creek is a secret to anybody who fishes for trout in the area is a little crazy with how much information is already widely available on the internet. Nothing I’ve posted is anything I haven’t seen before on this forum and I gave away no location or information specific to valley. Really disapointing to see you take my post in this way and if you haven’t noticed, the creek has been way more crowded of late due to the pandemic, so it’s no surprise to me that there were a few fisherman on the creek you wouldn’t normally see. I was simply trying to share a beautiful fish and some of the things I’ve learned about this sport, and without others sharing advice with me, I would never have stuck with this incredible sport. If everybody “lied” about where and how to catch fish very few people would stick to fly fishing and I promise the sport would not be where it is today. I’m definitely aware I am nowhere near the first or only person in the world to know fish live in Valley creek that’s for sure. Imagine if a few guys hadn’t shared some tips about fishing a hundred years ago, I promise you wouldn’t have picked up fly fishing either. I caught a fish I’m proud of and would want every other fisherman in the world to catch a fish like that and share that incredible feeling. To keep everything you know about fishing is selfish IMO and the most impactful people in the sport are those willing to share their knowledge with others and spread the great joy of fishing.
 
Agree, Surfcowboy, Very much agree...

I do not fish Valley, but I totally respect the battling survival instincts of that Watershed and those that battle along side Valley.
I worked with an organization that attempted to preserve another fragile resource near another eastern metro area. We did track postings on the WWW and , believe me, dramatic pressure increases did follow those postings. And, as outlined above, the "bad guys" just come running. Yes, I saw it for years...
Social media postings do "kill" fragile resources... especially in heavily populated areas.
 
Jack,

I shared what I shared in order to be polite and to suggest that you consider the pressure placed on a tiny stream when you burn it on the internet, and I said no hard feelings, by which I meant that this shouldn't be taken too personally and should be the end of it. But you had to argue the point, and I'm not one to suffer BS, especially when it doesn't reflect the facts.

"Do you really think every one in the world has a paflyfish account and reads these posts?" No, Jack, I don't. That said, anyone who wants one can have one. Do you think it would take the "whole world" to pressurize and wreck a stream that is under 11 miles in its entirety and that is already under tremendous pressure locally?

"That my one post of a decent sized fish has brought out all the jerkbait treble hook guys and they all beelined it to valley creek?" Wait a minute-one post of a decent sized fish? What about "A few short swipes from fish in the 10-14” range and one that looked to be around 16” had me encouraged when finally the one I had been looking for came out of the depths and inhaled my streamer. After a nice fight I slipped my net under a gorgeous 18” wild brown trout. Really feels special to land a fish of this size out of such a small creek, especially Valley, which everyone complains only has small fish in it. Only fished for another hour or so with only a few more short strikes, but my day had already been more than made. Didn't see hardly any bugs on the water, but saw, plain as day and only about 10 feet in front of me, a fish that would put the 18 incher I caught to shame slowly come up and take exactly one fly off the surface." By my count, that's multiple fish in the 10-14" range (big for Valley to most), one at 16", and two at 18". The pic didn't help, but the pic by itself without your big-fish census report probably would have been just fine on its own. Again, do a little research on what happened to the Bushkill just this winter and what happened to the Brodhead last winter.

"And that these guys will bring the demise of the creek? Have some perspective, I’ve fished the creek for years and have seen plenty of spin fisherman and guess what? There’s nothing against the law to throw a jerk bait in valley. You don’t own it and neither do I." Fair enough, we don't own it. So should we just trash it and exploit it, because it isn't any skin off our backs? Should we just turn it into a bass stream and throw plastic worms? There's no law against it, right? Jack, having fished for all these years, I'm surprised that you haven't noticed that just about every state has fly-fishing only water and in many places require barbless hooks. There are good reasons for that, and many of them have a lot to do with what happens to fish caught with jerk baits and treble hooks. I'm surprised you hadn't come across that in your years. It's a shame Valley isn't C&O FFO.

"And you know what else? If anybody saw my post as a reason to go fish valley creek, they will never catch big fish anyway because it takes a great amount of time and effort to do." Not if they follow your detailed instructions. Find a day with off-color water and then go huck streamers or jerk baits with confidence. If they do that, they're going to have similar results to what you had. At least until a couple dozen of them do it. Then their results are going to decline precipitously. Again, something that happens often on small streams when they are over-pressured. Something again I'd have expected an angler of your experience to know offhand.

"Something a guy who needs to see a picture of a big fish to go out and fish will never do." This is based upon what, your feelings on the matter? Because fishing magazines don't pay thousands of dollars to photographers every month for photos of big fish in order to stoke the excitement of their readers and get them to want to fish more and buy more? Whether or not you've been fishing for years or not, I'd expect anyone who understands marketing to have a handle on this.

"To think Valley creek is a secret to anybody who fishes for trout in the area is a little crazy with how much information is already widely available on the internet." Valley wasn't a secret. What you shared about it kind of was. As you yourself stated before giving us the Straight Dope, "It amazes me that the general perception of Valley Creek is that big fish don’t exist in the stream. Just simply untrue." A lot of us have gone out of our way to create that perception. But hey man, it's not about us, or the stream, because we don't own it. It's about you and your joy of fishing, right?

"Nothing I’ve posted is anything I haven’t seen before on this forum and I gave away no location or information specific to valley." I personally am unaware of anyone who ever burned the streamer bite on Valley to the degree that you did. Perhaps it has happened, and I didn't see it and didn't have the opportunity to try to enlighten the poster that Valley, being only 10.8 miles long (miles of which are unfishable), shouldn't be torched like a trip to Penn's Creek, which can handle the pressure. I've had to make these comments before, and every time I have, I've received the same blowback, and then three months later come the reports asking what happened to Valley. This stream gets the Hell beat out of it when people think they'll be lucky to catch 2 or 3 9" fish. Now they're going to go looking for all the 16-18" fish they should be catching.

"I was simply trying to share a beautiful fish and some of the things I’ve learned about this sport, and without others sharing advice with me, I would never have stuck with this incredible sport. If everybody “lied” about where and how to catch fish very few people would stick to fly fishing and I promise the sport would not be where it is today. I’m definitely aware I am nowhere near the first or only person in the world to know fish live in Valley creek that’s for sure. Imagine if a few guys hadn’t shared some tips about fishing a hundred years ago, I promise you wouldn’t have picked up fly fishing either. I caught a fish I’m proud of and would want every other fisherman in the world to catch a fish like that and share that incredible feeling. To keep everything you know about fishing is selfish IMO and the most impactful people in the sport are those willing to share their knowledge with others and spread the great joy of fishing."
What I read is someone on the defensive, trying to deflect being called out for roasting a stream for their own selfish benefit (recognition as a "sharpie" and knowledgeable fisherman), then trying to pretend that selfishness was in fact, not selfishness AT ALL--NO, NO---It was SelfLESSness, after all, providing the kind of detailed information that only an Oracle or the Libraries at Alexandria could have provided to the ignorant masses, and all for the purpose of SPREADING JOY. I guess you figure you're owed an apology for my harshing your mellow and killing your buzz. How about cutting this little stream some slack next time you have a bomb day. We all know you catch the big ones now.
 
I have made it pretty clear over the last 25 years this site is about sharing.

Do you really think its a big surprise that an already popluar fly fishing stream open right now to 6.1 million people living in the Philadelphia Metro Area is busy? Fishing license sales are up 23%, the biggest increase in decades. Hell people are in parkas and hats to get a meal outside. I live on a golf course and it's busy every day. Sun, heat, rain, snow, drizzle, fog, cold… it doesn't matter people are not working the same way and they are outside.

Yes there is plenty of media attention for streams located in populated areas and being featured in Fly Fishermen Magazine usually helps too.

But all my views, or anyone for that matter, are just opinions without facts.

This part of the site doesn't seem like a good fit for some. I’m going to ask that you stay out of Stream Reports if you are just gonna come here and trash on people that are sharing information. I have been supporting and believing in stream reports as a great tool for anglers to become more familiar with certain waters and how to fish them. It is one of the core components of the site.

I also might suggest you read the guidelines about this forum here. I’m pretty clear that this is for Stream Reports and no personal beefs.
 
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