Tying Dries to Face "Downstream" (Reverse Orientation on a Hook)

[jeffroey]

I'm coming off of some time fishing the Kettle Creek watershed recently with a bunch of dinosaurs (meant as a sincere complement) I try to hook up with every year. This year, one of our on-the-stream conversations while we were waiting for fish to start rising landed on tying dries backward on hooks with a few of the old-timers swearing by its effectiveness and claiming in some situations it makes all the difference . . . some even suggesting it more accurately mimics the orientation naturals are observed in as they float by. I take it all with a grain of salt but the concept was intriguing and I plan to "rise" to the challenge (see what I did there?) and try to tie up a few I can experiment with.

I'm not talking about reverse hackling - I'm talking about head & wings facing the hook bend so during an across & downstream drift, the fly will be facing the way the current is pulling it.

Two questions: (1) anybody else hear of old-timers (or anybody) tying this way and (2) if you've done this, any tips you have to make them up?

 

[5footfenwick]

If I was to tackle this, I think I’d definitely want a parachute hackle on a post off the rear bend. I could see the hook gap getting blocked by a traditional Catskills tie. Not to mention a pain in the butt to hackle. Just my two cents. Post a pic if you pull it off. I’m interested in how you make out. Sounds like a fun experiment!

~5footfenwick

 

[Bamboozle]

I've seen someone (can't remember who) that tied hook point UP reverse dry flies.

As far just reverse orientation; I see zero advantage and nothing but complication...

The first thing that comes to mind is I would need a left handed vise so my hook faced the opposite way because there is NO way I could tie a fly left-to-right in this order from the bend and tied off at the tail:

Head, hackle, body, tail...

Without it looking like a dog's breakfast and forget ribbing or quill bodies.

As far as which direction the bugs face when floating downstream, there are tricks you can do with your cast to change the orientation but in my experience I can't ever remember a situation when it mattered.

 

[wildtrout2]

Ridiculous. Talk about making FF more complicated than it needs to be.

 

[jeffroey]

Ridiculous. Talk about making FF more complicated than it needs to be.

Ridiculous to you or not, still a little intriguing to me.

Certainly not a new concept: here's the best quick-read on the subject and a pattern example:

Reverse tied duns - what, why & when?

What?! A reverse tied dry fly pattern is, put simply, an upwing dry fly tied with the tail at the hook eye, and the hackle at...

www.driftingtheriffle.co.uk

To me, this would clearly fish more like an emerger but still going to try tying a couple of these. I'll post pix for anyone interested.

 

[JimNovo]

Not ridiculous....
I have a bunch of patterns tied backwards.
Learned the technique from my mentor and I use them regularly. I try to fish down and across most of the time.

Caught a nice brown on Penns using the attached fly.

 

[BradFromPotter]

If you're wondering if it would be better just try it.

 

[JG63]

Then there’s this…

Thread 'Waterwisp'

Sep 22, 2007

I just got my monthly stash of fish porn and there is an article in fly tyer about tying Waterwisp style flies. They are dryflies that ride point up and have the hackle and wings tied to the hook bend parachute style.

Anyone tie them? It requires a kinda hook I do not have and before I go a shopping I was looking for some feedback on this style.


Here are some pics of the fly.

• Bruno
• Replies: 4
• Forum: Fly Tying

 

[wildtrout2]

Not ridiculous....
I have a bunch of patterns tied backwards.
Learned the technique from my mentor and I use them regularly. I try to fish down and across most of the time.

Caught a nice brown on Penns using the attached fly.
View attachment 1641251487

I'm not saying they won't/don't work, just saying I catch plenty of trout with conventionally tied flies. I don't see such a change worthy of the hassle. To each their own.

 

[Kms]

Then there’s this…

Thread 'Waterwisp'

Sep 22, 2007

I just got my monthly stash of fish porn and there is an article in fly tyer about tying Waterwisp style flies. They are dryflies that ride point up and have the hackle and wings tied to the hook bend parachute style.

Anyone tie them? It requires a kinda hook I do not have and before I go a shopping I was looking for some feedback on this style.


Here are some pics of the fly.

• Bruno
• Replies: 4
• Forum: Fly Tying

Interesting, though it looks like the hackle could occlude the hook gap. Tying instructions.

https://mvff.us/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/WATERWISP_LIGHT_CAHILL.pdf

 

[EchoRidgeElder]

Sit and watch real bugs float downstream. They float in every direction on the compass, and spin around during their entire float. Trout take them in every direction.

Food is food and i am going to get my meal whenever I can.

OTOH, why complicate things while tying your own flies?

 

[JimNovo]

OTOH, why complicate things while tying your own flies?

Why is it more complicated? Tying a fly is just building that pattern in a certain way. Same with a backwards fly. You just need to think about it in a different way.

At the end of the day, it's just another fly in your fly box that you can try when the fish are picky. Isn't that what fly tying is about?

 

[wildtrout2]

OTOH, why complicate things while tying your own flies?

And, if you don't tie your own flies, I think you'll be hard pressed to find backwards tied flies in your local fly shop. 😉

 

[dryflyguy]

FWIW - I've tied several mayfly patterns with the hook point facing skyward.

Yeah, they look great.
But my hook-up to strike ratio using them was very low - something like 1-2 fish landed for every 10 hits.
And I stopped tying them

 

[JimNovo]

FWIW - I've tied several mayfly patterns with the hook point facing skyward.

Yeah, they look great.
But my hook-up to strike ratio using them was very low - something like 1-2 fish landed for every 10 hits.
And I stopped tying them

But at least you tied it and tried it.

I've tied backwards flies (hook down) and they worked (a few days ago). I see plenty of mayflies heading downstream head first as their wings dry. Why wouldn't I try to tie flies that look like what I see. Isn't that the whole point of fly tying?

 

[dryflyguy]

I said nothing about backward flies - hook down.
I'm sure they work
My point was about hooks facing skyward - 180 degree difference.

They point of tying - to me anyway - is about making patterns that catch fish
If it looks great - but is hard to catch fish on - why bother?

 

[nfrechet]

Roy christie tied some "reversed"

Roy Christie flies

 

[poopdeck]

Over thinking the game. I’m sure reverse tied flies will catch fish equally as effective as the opposite just not any better. Trout are stupid and will hit cigarette butts at times and at times they won’t. Same applies to a perfectly tied fly and an imperfectly tied fly. I’m too old to learn to tie backwards. I feel I would poke myself on the hook point more then I do now.

 

[DryorDie]

I think "Overthinking the Game" is part of being a good fly tyer and angler. Your mind and strategies are always evolving and changing and then of course you refine here and there and sometimes you do go back to the basics. A book like "Hatches" or "Caddisflies" were written by innovators and creative thinkers who thought outside of the box and were mystified at the puzzle of why even stupid animals like a trout can still be smart enough to repeatedly refuse your offerings when they are clearly eating naturals (cigarette butts aside). I have started tying many of my mayfly imitations reverse style - which I realize is rare - but when I fool a 20" brown on the Upper Delaware in soft water on a new innovation (for me, I didn't invent the concept) it makes me smile. Everything is speculation - until we catch a speaking trout and query them - but a few points I like about reverse tying 1. I do believe most mayflies head downstream head first and I cast down and across so it makes sense. Even if they don't and it's 50/50 - if every other angler's flies approach a trout tail first and those are the ones that prick them - maybe changing it up gives me an advantage (maybe not) 2. Subterfuge - By making the "hook bend" the busy part of my fly.....ie: thorax/wing, etc does it possibly distract from the hook itself (maybe, maybe not) 3. I never have to worry about crowding the hook eye.....my abdomen ends at the hook eye. I do not extend any tails and in fact aside from floatability on a traditional dry fly I don't believe a tail adds any importance to a fly as trout focus on the body/thorax - the meat and potatoes ( I do believe a shuck on an emerger is a completely different animal) 4 Floatability - with the exception of parachute flies.....I incorporate no rooster hackle in any of my dry flies, preferring primarily CDC, Hen Hackle, EP Trigger Point Fibers and snowshoe. Aside from an emerger where I want part of my fly sunken - tying my wing material at the hook bend aids in keeping the fly afloat because the hook bend area in essence has twice the weight of anywhere else on the hook shank. Just my .02 cents - I tie in the traditional methods as well - and all I can say is I'll probably keep innovating because I'll never get to the point that I fool every surface feeding trout I see....LOL.

 

[PennKev]

. . some even suggesting it more accurately mimics the orientation naturals are observed in as they float by.

Any hatch I've seen has bugs facing in every direction as they drift by. Maybe mimicking bugs moving across the water as stoneflies and caddis sometimes do, you could make a claim that they mostly move in a certain orientation in relation to the current... ...but nah.

I take it all with a grain of salt but the concept was intriguing and I plan to "rise" to the challenge (see what I did there?) and try to tie up a few I can experiment with.

We've been doing this crap for hundreds of years, if backwards dry flies were worth it, they'd be a thing already.