Tiger Muskies Are Done

[Dave_W]

The PFBC no longer raises tiger muskellunge (tiger muskies are a hybrid between a musky and a pike, sometimes they occur naturally).

I have long been a skeptic of our state's tiger program and am pleased by this decision. Like the switch to yearlings a few years ago, I think this will improve muskie fishing statewide.

I note that the PFBC Warmwater/Coolwater stocking spreadsheets no longer lists tigers. The waters in my neck of the woods that have traditionally received tiger stockings - Conodoguinet Creek, Swatara Creek, and Holman Lake - are now listed as receiving purebred muskies.

 

[Solitariolupo]

I wouldn’t mind They only did tigers cause they couldn’t naturally spawn. Also only stocked them in trout waters. I didn’t see nothing saying they are stopping them though maybe just your waters. As they are not doing good with survey.

 

[TheDuke44]

To me the biggest benefit of moving away from tiger muskie is that we are no longer stocking sterile fish. Stock fingerlings, let nature take its course, and the healthiest fish will reproduce naturally.

I'm cool with stocking them, as there's not really evidence that they are outcompeting any other species, but it doesn't seem like the sustainable decision.

 

[Dave_W]

To be sure, the sterile nature of tigers have made them a big hit out West and there is now something of a niche muskie fly fishing movement out there. This makes sense as western states don't want to introduce a non-native species like muskellunge (pike have expanded their range out west with deleterious effect on some natives).

For PA, with our widespread muskie population statewide, I don't think tigers make sense for us, especially with growing data on the better performance of purebreds.

As far as natural repro - it's always been the view of the PFBC that stocking is needed to maintain a viable fishery, even in the native range in western PA. I think this conventional wisdom is correct, even though there have been some tempting bits of data on natural repro in the Susquehanna watershed (I've posted about this here before). This data, as far as I know, has not been solid enough to let muskies go "all natural" (there is a similar view with walleyes, but that's a different thread). An exception to the rule is the upper Potomac River where a really outstanding muskie fishery has emerged in recent years by natural repro and the MD DNR is carefully monitoring this fishery.

 

[RLeep2]

I figured something like this was on the way after PFBC repurposed their Union City facility to focus on non-game fish and aquatics propagation. Union City was where they used to cross the purebred Musky with the pike to get the tigers. I used to go over and watch them collect spawning Northerns out of Eaton Reservoir for this purpose. A bazillion pike in Eaton, but only about 5 of them exceed 24". Eaton is a good LMB/SMB lake, but it can cost 20-30 bucks a session in poppers/lures to fish for them due to constantly being schnitzeled off by runty pike.

The purebred musky program is not doing all that well in some of the natural glacial lakes in the NW that are within the fish's native range. As I recall, yearling stocking in Lakes LeBoeuf and Sugar is being discontinued due to poor returns based on biologist's surveys. Canadohta continues to be a major success though and Edinboro seems to be holding its own.

 

[CRB]

I figured something like this was on the way after PFBC repurposed their Union City facility to focus on non-game fish and aquatics propagation. Union City was where they used to cross the purebred Musky with the pike to get the tigers. I used to go over and watch them collect spawning Northerns out of Eaton Reservoir for this purpose. A bazillion pike in Eaton, but only about 5 of them exceed 24". Eaton is a good LMB/SMB lake, but it can cost 20-30 bucks a session in poppers/lures to fish for them due to constantly being schnitzeled off by runty pike.

The purebred musky program is not doing all that well in some of the natural glacial lakes in the NW that are within the fish's native range. As I recall, yearling stocking in Lakes LeBoeuf and Sugar is being discontinued due to poor returns based on biologist's surveys. Canadohta continues to be a major success though and Edinboro seems to be holding its own.

I've heard the same. Also the hatchery program lost +10% of its workers when John Arway placed a hiring freeze , cut jobs and relocated workers. The loss of retiring workers knowledge was not retained.

 

[bingsbaits]

Eaton is a good LMB/SMB lake, but it can cost 20-30 bucks a session in poppers/lures to fish for them due to constantly being schnitzeled off by runty pike.

Not anymore. Can't even buy a hammerhandle there anymore. Have hit that lake for 40 years and the Pike are just about gone now.
Loved to see the Musky in the fish traps. Used to be some bruisers in there.

 

[JG63]

The PFBC no longer raises tiger muskellunge (tiger muskies are a hybrid between a musky and a pike, sometimes they occur naturally).

I have long been a skeptic of our state's tiger program and am pleased by this decision. Like the switch to yearlings a few years ago, I think this will improve muskie fishing statewide.

I note that the PFBC Warmwater/Coolwater stocking spreadsheets no longer lists tigers. The waters in my neck of the woods that have traditionally received tiger stockings - Conodoguinet Creek, Swatara Creek, and Holman Lake - are now listed as receiving purebred muskies.

yearling muskies will likely starve in the Conodoguinet these days - I haven’t seen an egret or heron yet this year in the stretches close to me I travel over Orrs Bridge, Erbs Bridge, and Lambs Gap bridge nearly every day the loss of habitat for miles upstream and downstream of Orrs bridge is appalling - there is still some water upstream at Sample Bridge and Bernheisel but the vegetation, algae, and subsequent silt beds have just wrecked this creek - I’ll post some pics within a few days - photos of Musky flies for effect

 

[jifigz]

yearling muskies will likely starve in the Conodoguinet these days - I haven’t seen an egret or heron yet this year in the stretches close to me I travel over Orrs Bridge, Erbs Bridge, and Lambs Gap bridge nearly every day the loss of habitat for miles upstream and downstream of Orrs bridge is appalling - there is still some water upstream at Sample Bridge and Bernheisel but the vegetation, algae, and subsequent silt beds have just wrecked this creek - I’ll post some pics within a few days

And what caused these changes do you think?

 

[JG63]

And what caused these changes do you think?

A BIG reason is the rebuilding of Orrs Bridge a few years back - the large rock dam in the vicinity of old bridge had lots of structure and held a water level of two to three feet above the current level for about a mile upstream near Salmon Road / Sears Run. All the bank improvements in that area are high and dry now - no water, no fish - ALSO, Hampden township main sewage treatment plant has not been improved in the 21 years I’ve been here and it flows right into Sears Run which is pretty sterile anymore with no crayfish and very few macroinvertebrates 🙄 - also, a larger sewage treatment plant is only three or so miles upstream in the vicinity of Wegmans - all the pictured wastewater plants pictured are with a 5 minute drive of each other and empty directly into the Conodo or a tributary thereof - the last picture just shows the population density which has at least quadrupled in all townships along the creek these last 40 years - when I was young (‘70’s) there would have been a lot more green farmland in an aerial photo - we would catch fallfish, yellow bullheads, rock bass, smallmouth, occasional brown trout dropbacks from the spring creeks, redbreast sunfish, and channel cats just about anywhere on this creek - it just can’t stand the urban sprawl - I’d LOVE to see the PAFBC data on why they think an apex predator like Musky can even survive here anymore

 

[TimMurphy]

A BIG reason is the rebuilding of Orrs Bridge a few years back - the large rock dam in the vicinity of old bridge had lots of structure and held a water level of two to three feet above the current level for about a mile upstream near Salmon Road / Sears Run. All the bank improvements in that area are high and dry now - no water, no fish - ALSO, Hampden township main sewage treatment plant has not been improved in the 21 years I’ve been here and it flows right into Sears Run which is pretty sterile anymore with no crayfish and very few macroinvertebrates 🙄 - also, a larger sewage treatment plant is only three or so miles upstream in the vicinity of Wegmans - all the pictured wastewater plants pictured are with a 5 minute drive of each other and empty directly into the Conodo or a tributary thereof - the last picture just shows the population density which has at least quadrupled in all townships along the creek these last 40 years - when I was young (‘70’s) there would have been a lot more green farmland in an aerial photo - we would catch fallfish, yellow bullheads, rock bass, smallmouth, occasional brown trout dropbacks from the spring creeks, redbreast sunfish, and channel cats just about anywhere on this creek - it just can’t stand the urban sprawl - I’d LOVE to see the PAFBC data on why they think an apex predator like Musky can even survive here anymore

Dear JG63,

Last May 2025 my brother and I took a drift boat trip on the Cannotgoinit with a guide. We floated from Willow Mill to the DeFillipo Nature Center. The fishing was fantastic when we floated, but the truly remarkable thing was that except for creek side homes there is very little development visible with the trees are leafed out. You could hear cars everywhere, but you couldn't see them except when you went under a bridge.

I spent 18 years driving from my home to Carlisle for work. Even though I spent the majority of my drive on I-81 there was almost never a time when dozers and excavators weren't tearing something up once I got past Tower Road in Enola. I can go back further to the late 1980's when I used to work in Ephrata, but the home office was in Mechanicsburg on Carlisle Pike across from the Wal-Mart just east of Rte. 114. Back then, I could drive from Ephrata to the office on 222 to 283 to 83 to the Carlisle Pike in an hour or so for a late afternoon meeting at the home office. You couldn't do that now with a stealth Ferrari with laser collision avoidance technology today.

I spent my youth in Lower Bucks County in the 1970's. We could ride bikes anywhere we wanted to go to fish until we got our driver's licenses. I know what it's like to see a good place trashed, and I'm sorry for what is happening around here.

Regards,

Tim Murphy

 

[JG63]

Dear JG63,

Last May 2025 my brother and I took a drift boat trip on the Cannotgoinit with a guide. We floated from Willow Mill to the DeFillipo Nature Center. The fishing was fantastic when we floated, but the truly remarkable thing was that except for creek side homes there is very little development visible with the trees are leafed out. You could hear cars everywhere, but you couldn't see them except when you went under a bridge.

I spent 18 years driving from my home to Carlisle for work. Even though I spent the majority of my drive on I-81 there was almost never a time when dozers and excavators weren't tearing something up once I got past Tower Road in Enola. I can go back further to the late 1980's when I used to work in Ephrata, but the home office was in Mechanicsburg on Carlisle Pike across from the Wal-Mart just east of Rte. 114. Back then, I could drive from Ephrata to the office on 222 to 283 to 83 to the Carlisle Pike in an hour or so for a late afternoon meeting at the home office. You couldn't do that now with a stealth Ferrari with laser collision avoidance technology today.

I spent my youth in Lower Bucks County in the 1970's. We could ride bikes anywhere we wanted to go to fish until we got our driver's licenses. I know what it's like to see a good place trashed, and I'm sorry for what is happening around here.

Regards,

Tim Murphy

I grew up in Mechanicsburg - just about equal distance to the Conodoguinet or the Breeches - we’d ride our 10 speeds to either one depending on what we wanted to catch - also great spring creeks like Trindle, Cedar, and Hogestown had wild browns and rainbows before wild trout were cool - and were just a few minutes bike ride from my childhood home - we had not a care in the world - but that 50 years was a lifetime ago with the modern changes to this area 😑