Thompson Run,Centre County,10-20-13

[mario66pens]

Figure 64 is my favorite on that stream.

 

[BrookieChaser]

I saw two fly fishermen on this stream today. In front of Alexander Dodge.

 

[mario66pens]

me and sarce have both been kicked off by the dealership, but not at the same time lol

 

[BrookieChaser]

I wasn't sure if the two I saw were people from here, that's why I mentioned it.

I keep planning on fishing this stream. It seems something always comes up.

 

[pcray1231]

Regarding #52, if I'm understanding the discussion correctly, it's not that it actually flows heavier. It's that it's recorded more accurately. Prior to that, some of the flow went under the flume and was not being captured by the recorder. When they built a new flume, it captured ALL of the actual flow, hence the increase.

 

[mario66pens]

I fished the length of the creek today, my observation: On the lower end I caught almost all browns; on the upper end almost all rainbows. Such a strange stream, the biggest was around 20 in according to the marking on my fly rod.

 

[Chaz]

sarce wrote:
FWIW, I get the impression these rainbows were fairly well established before I started fishing it. Some of the first rainbows I caught there were pretty big, probably 4-5 years old, and their parents must have been there a few years before that...I'd guess they've been there at least ten years. Obviously I don't know if there were as many in the past, but there must have been some.

I caught a rainbow at Fisherman's Paradise a few weeks ago that looked (and fought) identical to the wild ones in Thompson and Slab Cabin. Have also caught a few small ones at Spring Creek Park. I think they are pretty widespread. I even caught what i think was a wild rainbow in a Centre County freestone stream, but that had a completely different spot pattern from the ones in the spring creek watershed.

BrookieChaser wrote:

I assume you guys are accessing this stream behind Hickey's and the Marriott hotel? Between 26 and Slab Cabin.

Yes. Plan on dodging lots of traffic if you want to fish above there and try not to hook cars or a catabus on your backcast, lol.

That tells me they are stocked fish, maybe some reproducein Spring Creek or the tribs. I think it is different genetics that allows the bows to reproduce successfully. It appears that photos indicate they are stocked, beat up fins. I've caught rainbows in Spring Creek over the last 10 years down as far as Milesburg, and though everyone was stocked, maybe escapees. They just didn't have the color of truely wild fish.

 

[mario66pens]

Chaz wrote: That tells me they are stocked fish, maybe some reproducein Spring Creek or the tribs. I think it is different genetics that allows the bows to reproduce successfully. It appears that photos indicate they are stocked, beat up fins. I've caught rainbows in Spring Creek over the last 10 years down as far as Milesburg, and though everyone was stocked, maybe escapees. They just didn't have the color of truely wild fish.

I have little doubt that they are wild, many small ones 3-5 in. Look at the colors on this one

 

[sarce]

Chaz, in all the stocked vs wild threads that have been on this board I have never seen you say a fish is wild.

The fin indicators go out the window on Thompson run because part of the stream practically is a concrete raceway. I've caught some browns and bows that were clearly wild fish with some minor fin damage. With that said, I can think of a couple larger rainbows I've caught there that did not look wild, they had a very dense spot pattern that is completely different from most of the rainbows there, along with bizarre split dorsal fins.

 

[pcray1231]

FWIW, while I don't trust myself in identifying rainbows, based on the pic alone I'd guestimate that Mario's fish is stocked (escaped at a young age maybe). I could be swayed either way on it.

That said, there ARE documented wild bows in Spring Creek. I catch my share of stockers around the hatcheries and downstream, and think that MOST of those are indeed stocked, though I don't deny that a couple may and probably do successfully reproduce. But farther upstream there's a totally different population. And they are probably what seeds Thompson.

And the wild one's tend to be LESS colored up than the stockers. I've done only a very little bit of wild bow fishing in the SC limestoners. But in more northern areas, all of the wild bows I've caught don't have very impressive colors.

 

[albud1962]

The rainbow looks like a hatchery fish, but not sure how it could have reached the upper sections of Spring Creek. There is a large dam near the Rock which would impede fish passage. I think the dam might be at least 5 feet high. Benner Spring is the last hatchery upstream and I don't believe it could have come from there. I have caught small rainbows above the dam and the rock. Are there any clubs or private stockings on Cedar Run?

 

[nymphingmaniac]

albud,
there have been rumors that the private water upstream of the rock, along trout road, is/was stocked. These are rumors and should not be taken too seriously.
No doubt natural reproduction goes on in upper spring creek (not saying wild fish). One stretch in particular has a good and growing number of YOY caught. Larger fish in the area are caught too. It's hard to tell the source. These fish obviously came from the hatchery at one point. The open discussion is how much repro, if any, is going on.

 

[sarce]

Two from Slab Cabin...personally, I firmly believe rainbows are reproducing throughout the system. Wild bows are fairly limited in upper Spring and middle/upper Slab Cabin, but common in Thompson run and lower slab cabin. Occasionally, one of these rainbows appears to be a hatchery escaped fish, but most are not. There are too many smaller rainbows for all of them to be seeded by a few escaped fish, and plenty of larger ones that look identical to the little ones. If you don't believe they are wild, that's fine. Mario and I will keep surveying the population ;-)

 

[nymphingmaniac]

I have no doubts fish are reproducing. I wonder when it can be considered a wild population. After I added my post above I got to thinking. What is the definition (or distinguishing feature) of natural reproduction versus wild populations?
Anyone know? two generations? three?

 

[pcray1231]

If the fish was born in the stream, it is a wild fish, period.

Wild fish can occur without a "permanent, established" population. It would just mean, if left to it's own devices, the population would not sustain its numbers over multiple generations.

FWIW, rainbows in upper Spring are NOT new. As I said, I do not trust myself in judging the wildness of rainbows based on pics alone (unless freshly stocked, of course). There is indeed an established, wild population in Spring Creek proper, centered around the mouth of Slab Cabin, Thompson, and the like. I don't doubt that a stocked fish from below, could, on occasion, get up there. But I'd say the majority up there are indeed wild. So, an established, wild population with the occasional stocker thrown in for good measure.

On the other hand, I've also caught rainbows at Benner, Paradise, and all the way down to the mouth. It is clear that fair numbers of fish escape from the hatcheries, often at a young age, and they grow up, color up, and take on some traits of wild fish just like a fingerlinged stocked fish would. Further, they stock fish in the city of Bellefonte. From Benner down, I've always believed the majority of the rainbows have hatchery origins. That said, I do not doubt that those hatchery fish occasionally reproduce, meaning there are a few wild ones mixed in. i.e. a hatchery population with the occasional wild one thrown in for good measure.

What I question is whether there is a stable, established population down there, or if that population is dependent on being continuously "re-seeded". i.e. if the hatcheries were to shut down and they were to stop stocking in Bellefonte, would that population die out in a generation or two? I lean towards this being the case, but don't pretend to be sure of it.

 

[albud1962]

I would have to say there is a permanent wild rainbow population in lower Spring Creek that is self sustaining. I have not fished upper Spring Creek as much until last summer. I have caught small rainbows in the vicinity of the rock but only browns from the sheep farm up. Thanks for the pictures Sarce. Always cool to catch an occasional rainbow. They do fight well. Does anyone know when the last wild brookie was caught out of Thompson Run?

 

[nymphingmaniac]

My opinion about the heart of and distribution of the wild population in Spring is the same as pcray's.
Another source of rainbows in lower Spring (milesburg) is migration of fish from the bald eagle looking for a thermal refuge as summer approaches. Not sure how much this contributes versus those escaping from hatcheries.

 

[mario66pens]

Below Bellefonte I have not caught many rainbows that were of the smaller size range. In Slab Cabin and Thompson, I have caught many rainbows that are in the 3 to 9 inch range. In Thompson I have no problem making the argument that rainbows outnumber browns, by a vast number.