Switzerland- Why can’t we do this?

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riverwhy

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Jan 5, 2007
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I just got back from a fabulous trip to Paris and Zurich. A couple things I noticed was that both cities are very clean more so Zurich than Paris but both were a welcome change from filthadelphia. We took the train from Paris to Zurich and what I noticed was the lack of sprawl in the French countryside with beautiful vistas of farmland, rolling hills and woodlands, and charming villages. Saw a few nice looking streams as we got closer to the Swiss border. In Switzerland there are numerous lakes with cities clustered around them yet from what I have read is that they are extremely clean, swimmable and with numerous pollution sensitive species. I have attached an article most of you can’t read but it appears the Swiss supported funding wastewater treatment far beyond what we do in the US. Why do you think that is? Dependency on tourism? Education levels and understanding of health effects of pollution? Population density? National pride in the beauty of their land? We only explored the areas around Zurich and Lucerne. Did take a trip up to the top of Mount Titlis to experience the Alps. Absolutely breathtaking.
In the negative vein, Switzerland seemed like it had a fair amount of sprawl in its valleys but I guess that’s to be expected when you have such an advanced economy. Smoking also seemed much more common and that seemed to be the main source of litter in the cities. Also, the street our hotel in Zurich seemed to be a rally site for insecure males with loud cars. No difference from Philly except they were Lamborghini’s rather than Subarus.
www.theguardian.com

From sewage and scum to swimming in ‘blue gold’: how Switzerland transformed its rivers

In the 1960s, the Swiss had some of the dirtiest water in Europe. Now, their cities boast pristine rivers and lakes – and other countries are looking to follow their lead
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
 
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tomgamber said:
About 4 million less people?
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PA has more people but nearly three times the land area making the population density about half that of Switzerland.

Germanic cultures tend to concentrate more on orderliness than much of the world. That is going to play a big role.

Europeans are also conditioned to live in closer proximity to each other than Americans. That is probably the biggest factor in limiting sprawl.
 
ROVERT said:
PA has more people but nearly three times the land area making the population density about half that of Switzerland.

Germanic cultures tend to concentrate more on orderliness than much of the world. That is going to play a big role.

Europeans are also conditioned to live in closer proximity to each other than Americans. That is probably the biggest factor in limiting sprawl.
Click to expand...
Talking just Philly metro area.
 
ROVERT said:
PA has more people but nearly three times the land area making the population density about half that of Switzerland.

Germanic cultures tend to concentrate more on orderliness than much of the world. That is going to play a big role.

Europeans are also conditioned to live in closer proximity to each other than Americans. That is probably the biggest factor in limiting sprawl.
Click to expand...
also compare average sq ft of housing per person here and there. People concentrate in cities because the cost of cars is prohibitive. No jumping in a Tundra (or whatever) with a rod vault to drive 3 hrs to fish.
A lot of positives in other countries but a lot of negatives too. Pick what's right for you.
 
All the tech guys working at
Google want fabulous and modern apartments in the city. Not McMansions on 10 acres of land.
But despite the public transportation there still seemed to be an abundance of autos. Also all the highways seemed like they were just built. The traffic around Lucerne was bad. Our
Guide said it was due to over promotion of tourism without adequate infrastructure.
 
riverwhy said:
All the tech guys working at
Google want fabulous and modern apartments in the city. Not McMansions on 10 acres of land.
But despite the public transportation there still seemed to be an abundance of autos. Also all the highways seemed like they were just built. The traffic around Lucerne was bad. Our
Guide said it was due to over promotion of tourism without adequate infrastructure.
Click to expand...
Cities are always attractive to young nerdy guys with no family or kids. That changes. But they like stuff they can show off like cars.
 
There is definitely a progression. I did see some suburbs on our train trip up to the top of a mountain overlooking Zurich. Houses were close together. My daughter and her husband were originally in Manhattan but moved to Hoboken. Now planning kids and will eventually move to the Jersey burbs I guess.
 
The city of Zurich covers about 34 square miles
Philadelphia covers about 142.7 square miles

I'd say space is a factor
 
It’s the topography. You can’t easily build cities on mountian sides.
 
@riverwhy I picked up your general points seemed to be waste water and national pride in the beauty of their land. In general European waters were much more horribly polluted from industrialization in the 19 century and have given a propriety to fix up their mess. I think we have too, but just way behind. They can move in a national direction, I think much of the local waste water is at a very local level here. We can barely keep up with the pot holes in PA.

As for general pollution the Swiss and Austrians win a prize from where I can traveled. They are beautiful countries, well kept and clean. I agree with @Kms it's a cultural thing along with economics. Those Germanic counties culturally decided, at some point in time, to make it a priority to clean up. It would very interesting to understand how and when that change occurred. The US did make some positive movement in the 1970's, but stalled.

I've been lucky to travel and much of the world has major issues with trash. I would give Philly a B- and many other places like D's and F's. The worst were the West Bank, Jordan, parts of Tanzania, and Havana. Plastic water bottles are the scourge of the world.
 
tomgamber said:
The city of Zurich covers about 34 square miles
Philadelphia covers about 142.7 square miles

I'd say space is a factor
Click to expand...

DaveKile said:
@riverwhy I picked up your general points seemed to be waste water and national pride in the beauty of their land. In general European waters were much more horribly polluted from industrialization in the 19 century and have given a propriety to fix up their mess. I think we have too, but just way behind. They can move in a national direction, I think much of the local waste water is at a very local level here. We can barely keep up with the pot holes in PA.

As for general pollution the Swiss and Austrians win a prize from where I can traveled. They are beautiful countries, well kept and clean. I agree with @Kms it's a cultural thing along with economics. Those Germanic counties culturally decided, at some point in time, to make it a priority to clean up. It would very interesting to understand how and when that change occurred. The US did make some positive movement in the 1970's, but stalled.

I've been lucky to travel and much of the world has major issues with trash. I would give Philly a B- and many other places like D's and F's. The worst were the West Bank, Jordan, parts of Tanzania, and Havana. Plastic water bottles are the scourge of the world.
Click to expand...
Yeah people seemed to be ignoring wastewater treatment. That really was my main point. I even conceded Switzerland was a bit sprawly in the areas I traveled. It felt industrial and I did not see Heidi milking cows anywhere. To be industrialized with a decent population and tall mountains the stuff has to go somewhere. Much of the countryside of France though looked like it
Must have 400 years ago with the exception of the power lines. No Sheetz or Wawas.
I remember one of Hemingway’s articles about Havana’s waste being dumped into the Gulfstream. Disgusting. I assume it still happens.
 
rustbeltwilds said:
I dont like ai. BUT remember ai is the main driver of the needing building these data centers. They use massive amounts of water give off massive emissions etc etc. Where are the climate activists now....
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Don’t leave out our Senator from Connecticut. Sorry I tried to include Keirns4 post about the Governor.
 
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