Spring Creek, Centre County, 7/17/2010 am

[pcray1231]

Well, spent the weekend in state college.

Took a walk below paradise on Saturday afternoon around 4 pm. Didn't fish, but took a water temp of 72.

Went out fishing this morning. Water temp at the same place was 64 at 5:15 a.m. this morning. Didn't fish there though, I went farther down; parked at the McCoy dam lot and fished up to a few pools past the Kwik Fill. Water temp 60 when I started, forgot to take a reading when I quit.

There were a few tricos in the air but not many. Found a riser here and there. But most of my fish came by prospecting and skittering a CDC caddis right up against the banks, most fish were under rocks and such and you had to draw their attention with the movement. Landed 10 in all, only one was nice (15" ish), the rest were around 7-8". I did try nymphing but no luck at that. Quit around 9:15, everything had effectively turned off as soon as the sun got on the water.

 

[bam]

Fished Tue evening and this morning. Each of us caught a few on nymphs at Benner Tuesday. Scuds, beadheads, PTs, and midges each picked up a few. Fished dries in the evening, picking up a couple on beetles and dries.

Fished the Tricos this morning at FPP. I think the rains and cloudy weather threw them a curve. They weren't as thick as normal, but a few clouds of them moving upstream brought some fish to the surface. They weren't picky and standard spent wing spinners picked up fish with a good cast to a riser. Even caught the same fish twice a half hour apart... he was rising again just a few minutes after the initial release.

Nothing real big, but solid 12 inch fish were the norm

 

[PennKev]

Nothing real big, but solid 12 inch fish were the norm

Have either of you guys noticed an increase in average size of the fish in the Paradise stretch? It seemed a few years back that there were tons of 8"-10" and fewer larger fish. Now the ~12" seem to have become more common. Personally, I'm pretty happy if I can catch a bunch of foot long trout!

Kev

 

[troutslammer]

i didn't notice the trout being any bigger but the suckers are way over populated in a place they shouldn't call paradise

 

[PennKev]

Spring creek is a sucker stream. The only place I catch more is Neshannock.

 

[cmkrachen]

i used to routenly bank suckers...they eat the same fish as trout and the bio mass of them is enormous. if there were no suckers at all, there woul dbe much larger trout...the food the suckers eat would in turn be eaten by the trout...i'd bet 2 million on that...

 

[TDB]

Good reports guys - thnaks.

I agree on the sucker over-population. Something needs to be done about that.

 

[PennKev]

I don't think the suckers are hurting the trout much. They may be large and numerous, but I doubt the trout would be much larger if no suckers were in Spring Creek. The trout population is incredibly high in Spring. If anything, reducing the number of trout would lead to an increase in average size. I don't think anyone is going to argue that trout don't compete with other trout. On the other hand, the competition between suckers and trout is debatable.

Kev

 

[bam]

But if you get rid of the suckers, you'd be killing one of Spring Creek's best hatches. The spawn hatch🙂

I'm not sure about the average size of the fish in FFP. This is the first year I fished the Paradise since I graduated college, but it's been productive and produced nice fish each time out. I like having the option to wade, so I normally chose to fish other parts of the creek.

 

[salvelinusfontinalis]

I don't think the suckers are hurting the trout much. They may be large and numerous, but I doubt the trout would be much larger if no suckers were in Spring Creek. The trout population is incredibly high in Spring. If anything, reducing the number of trout would lead to an increase in average size. I don't think anyone is going to argue that trout don't compete with other trout. On the other hand, the competition between suckers and trout is debatable.

Agree totally.

 

[MKern]

Populations swing in cycles.

So there must have been a couple good breeding and feeding seasons for the suckers.

The trout that are there will gorge themselves on sucker eggs and fry over the next couple yearsand the pendulem will swing back.

(That's even if the sucker population is even higher now than before)

 

[dryflyguy]

Glad to see the nice report.
I'm headed to spring creek monday for a few days of (hopefully) trico and terestial fishing

 

[cmkrachen]

This is one of my favorite subjects! I agree 100 percent with the above statements that "suckers don't hurt trout" i agree...i am not in anyway whatsoever suggesting suckers have a negative impact on trout. My logic and reasoning is simple and based in basic biology, ecosystems and food chains. Suckers eat the same exact food items that trout eat. FACT. Suckers BIO MASS is much greater than that of the trout based on numbers AND average size of suckers...and averaged size sucker is probably (based on last time i fished spring) around 17 inches. FACT trout eat SOME sucker eggs...remember, trout arent getting behind suckers spawning soley to eat eggs, they are often eating what the suckers stir up but digging redds. FACT trout to not sustain themselves for long periods of time on sucker eggs. FACT suckers also eat trout eggs. FACT trout (larger trout) will eat small suckers, which however grow at an extremely rapid rate.

To me it is quite simple, if there were NO suckers... ALL of the insect life consumed by suckers would now be consumed by trout and or other forage fish and crayfish. Trout would not suddenly starve because of a lack of sucker spawn to eat. the trout population would either increase, or the fish would gain overall larger average sizes.

I also agree that if there were a sort of slot limit on trout, IE you can take fish between 8-12 inches this may also increase size of trout, however in PA with the poor enforcement we already have on C&R streams, i dont think youd be successful implementing slot limits because too many guys would just take a limit and not care about the sizes...

Fun stuff and look forward to hearing responses...AGAIN just to be clear, before people chime in. IN NO WAY DO I THINK SUCKERS HARM THE TROUT POPULATIONS.

 

[YoughRiverGuide]

cm: I have to say that I'd likely "bank" you if I witnessed you killing suckers for no other reason than that they eat food that belongs to trout.

C'mon man.