Pohopoco Carbon County 06-24-2010
- Thread starter Alpabuck
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SBecker
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outsider as a new fly fishermen myself, I only have a 9ft rod because I love fishing the Lehigh, and I fish the Po alot. So if a newbie like myself can fish the Po with a 9fter I am sure an experienced fly fishermen like yourself should have no problem.
LehighRegular
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Where did you fish the "Upper River"....below FEW should have been OK for a few miles at least. Release temp is about 63F.
gfen
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The Pohococo creek and I have issues.
Everytime I try to go, something goes wrong. I decided to take off work today and try one more time. Despite being radared twice by staties, I somehow avoided the tickets and thought that finally the curse was broken.. I got there, turned out to have all my gear and finally managed to break the surface with my foot. Five glorious, fish filled hours ahead of me.
Oh, they were fish filled alright, the stream was loaded with fish. Vast pods of the buggers, and even in the afternoon there were mayflies in the air.
Should've been easy, but no. Five hours, and some to grow on, yielded me 1 (one) fish.
And it cost me a little bottle stuffed with flies that I'd never even used somewhere along the stream
Gfen's curse of the Poconogo lives on.
Should've gone to work instead.
Everytime I try to go, something goes wrong. I decided to take off work today and try one more time. Despite being radared twice by staties, I somehow avoided the tickets and thought that finally the curse was broken.. I got there, turned out to have all my gear and finally managed to break the surface with my foot. Five glorious, fish filled hours ahead of me.
Oh, they were fish filled alright, the stream was loaded with fish. Vast pods of the buggers, and even in the afternoon there were mayflies in the air.
Should've been easy, but no. Five hours, and some to grow on, yielded me 1 (one) fish.
And it cost me a little bottle stuffed with flies that I'd never even used somewhere along the stream
Gfen's curse of the Poconogo lives on.
Should've gone to work instead.
gfen
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From 209 up a ways to the first bend.
I move slow, and when I discovered I'd dumped by stuff somewhere, I went back to check.
Previous attempts where right at the actual spillway, at the end of Pocoloco drive or whatever its called. Was told the 209 interchange was even nicer.
I'd say I'd do it agian, but... Its cursed. On the other hand, its nice knowing that in the heat of summer this stream should still be chilly.
I move slow, and when I discovered I'd dumped by stuff somewhere, I went back to check.
Previous attempts where right at the actual spillway, at the end of Pocoloco drive or whatever its called. Was told the 209 interchange was even nicer.
I'd say I'd do it agian, but... Its cursed. On the other hand, its nice knowing that in the heat of summer this stream should still be chilly.
Hello, I've been reading this forum for a while now and finally joined. After reading this topic with interest I kind of found myself alternating between laughter and eye-rolling at a few of the comments.
First, the Lehigh River tailwater absolutely does have the potential to be an outstanding, world-class fishery. The potential is there, especially with two tailwaters, for 40+ miles of a sustainable holdover and wild trout fishery. The hatches are excellent, the growth rate for trout is awesome, and there are enough tributaries to provide spawning habitat. The trout I catch between Jim Thorpe and Palmerton is great. I've caught wild brown & brook trout in numerous eastern states and I'm catching more and more wild browns in this section of the Lehigh each year. And the fingerling study is working out well from what I can tell, I've nailed fingerlings with the clipped adipose fin on at least 3 different trips this season so far.
Second, the LRSA deserves a ton of credit for its dedication and belief in the ability of the Lehigh to recover into a fine trout fishery. When the PFBC and others kept saying no the middle river wouldn't support a trout fishery year round they proved them absolutely wrong. The LCFA also deserves credit for its strong advocation for the fishery. As well as bringing groups like the LRSA, PFBC, and several local PATU chapters together to continue to strive together for better fishery releases and in getting the word out about this fantastic and growing trout fishery.
First, the Lehigh River tailwater absolutely does have the potential to be an outstanding, world-class fishery. The potential is there, especially with two tailwaters, for 40+ miles of a sustainable holdover and wild trout fishery. The hatches are excellent, the growth rate for trout is awesome, and there are enough tributaries to provide spawning habitat. The trout I catch between Jim Thorpe and Palmerton is great. I've caught wild brown & brook trout in numerous eastern states and I'm catching more and more wild browns in this section of the Lehigh each year. And the fingerling study is working out well from what I can tell, I've nailed fingerlings with the clipped adipose fin on at least 3 different trips this season so far.
Second, the LRSA deserves a ton of credit for its dedication and belief in the ability of the Lehigh to recover into a fine trout fishery. When the PFBC and others kept saying no the middle river wouldn't support a trout fishery year round they proved them absolutely wrong. The LCFA also deserves credit for its strong advocation for the fishery. As well as bringing groups like the LRSA, PFBC, and several local PATU chapters together to continue to strive together for better fishery releases and in getting the word out about this fantastic and growing trout fishery.
Alpabuck
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Lets see how those trout are come Sept when they been in 80 plus degree water for 3 months!
What makes you people that trout can live in that kind of water? The only way it could ever become a decent and I said decent it will never be the Delaware, would be if you some how convinced the ACOE to realase around 1000cfs all summer! Good Luck! No one wants to see it happen more then me but sometimes we have to realize to difference between our day dreams and reality!
"Lets see how those trout are come Sept when they been in 80 plus degree water for 3 months!
What makes you people that trout can live in that kind of water? The only way it could ever become a decent and I said decent it will never be the Delaware, would be if you some how convinced the ACOE to realase around 1000cfs all summer! Good Luck! No one wants to see it happen more then me but sometimes we have to realize to difference between our day dreams and reality!"
(sorry trying to figure out how to make this site's post quoting function work)
Aside from the the fact that trout have these amazing things called fins and use them to swim and find thermal refuges where are the Lehigh River trout subjected to 80 degree water for 3 months? They certainly weren't last year, or the year before that, and so far haven't been this year even though its been bad lately. Do you honestly think the trout disappear each summer and are replenished only by fresh stockings in the fall and following spring? BTW, its been 80 degrees in Lordville on the Delaware for days now.
You don't need a consistent 1000cfs release at all either, where are you getting that from? Even in 75-78 degree water there is an awful lot of dissolved oxygen that help the trout survive until temps become more favorable (DO is quite more important than just water temp to trout survival). If the Lehigh wasn't capable of being one of the top tailwater trout fisheries in the East I don't think tailwater trout fishery experts like Dr. Bachmann or men who guide both the Delaware and Lehigh would be wasting their time & energy in saying so.
What makes you people that trout can live in that kind of water? The only way it could ever become a decent and I said decent it will never be the Delaware, would be if you some how convinced the ACOE to realase around 1000cfs all summer! Good Luck! No one wants to see it happen more then me but sometimes we have to realize to difference between our day dreams and reality!"
(sorry trying to figure out how to make this site's post quoting function work)
Aside from the the fact that trout have these amazing things called fins and use them to swim and find thermal refuges where are the Lehigh River trout subjected to 80 degree water for 3 months? They certainly weren't last year, or the year before that, and so far haven't been this year even though its been bad lately. Do you honestly think the trout disappear each summer and are replenished only by fresh stockings in the fall and following spring? BTW, its been 80 degrees in Lordville on the Delaware for days now.
You don't need a consistent 1000cfs release at all either, where are you getting that from? Even in 75-78 degree water there is an awful lot of dissolved oxygen that help the trout survive until temps become more favorable (DO is quite more important than just water temp to trout survival). If the Lehigh wasn't capable of being one of the top tailwater trout fisheries in the East I don't think tailwater trout fishery experts like Dr. Bachmann or men who guide both the Delaware and Lehigh would be wasting their time & energy in saying so.
Alpabuck
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I've guided both the Lehigh and the Delaware I dont think the Lehigh has a chance. Does it have a small population of wild fish? Yes it does and it was never more apparent then this spring with the amount of small browns that my clients and I caught! I contribute a great of there being there to the rain we have last year. Well guess what last was freak. It wont ever be much of a wild trout river either, sure there will be small populations but it will never be sell sustaining. Look at the main tribs from Jim Thrope down Mauch Chunck, decent at best! Mahoning=frog water and the Lizard is pretty much the same. Aquashicola have you seen that water down near the Lehigh lately???? You could get sick just looking at it! The Poh helps but not nearly enough. It could turn in the Yough which wouldnt be a bad thing at all, but it will always depend of supplemental stocking either adults or fingerlings.
Oh yeah small fishin this week water in below the 895 boat launch has been 80+or- since Tuesday!
Oh yeah small fishin this week water in below the 895 boat launch has been 80+or- since Tuesday!
LehighRegular
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Alpa
I think time will tell who will be right and who will be wrong. But it would not be a good to put all your money down on this river NOT surpassing the Delaware fishery. If a few changes can be put in place, I think amazing things can happen on this river. WHY? Everything is lining up for it to happen. The Study the Corps is completing is showing some very promising results. It has already been determined that releases from FEW can influence water temps down to the Glen Onoko/Jim Thorpe area consistently. Now, the key is to get the fisheries releases cold.
If FEW can release cold 55 F (+/-) deg water consistently during the summer months, the upper 10 -12 miles should remain cool enough down to where the tributaries kick in their coldwater, then trout friendly temps should hold up for a good distance down river.
Yes, some years will be better than others as a result of rain and more influence from tribs (like last summer). Some years will there will be less miles of trout favorable temp water, as a resutl of weather we are experiencing this summer. This is a result of less trib influence. However, the more miles we can sustain, even in dry/hot summers, the trout will find the cold water to survive and remain there untill they can spread back out.
As for reproduction, I believe the tribs will be the lifeblood of this river for its wild trout. The east side tribs in the gorge hold good numbers of wild trout and good spawing habitat. I've witnessed video of fish running up them already and spawning. The reason the trout don't spawn in the Lehigh now is because water temps every year exceed 68F. Typically trout won't spawn in streams/river that normally exceed 68F. THey will seek out the cooler tribs to do their business.
Even if they don't reproduce, this years evidence from the fingerling survey have shown that these fish can survive with some astonishing growth rates. Nothing is wrong with a fingerling stocked fishery. When they grow big enough, they look and act like a wild trout anyway.
The small population of wild trout in this river are the base for better wild trout populations in future...just add coldwater all summer long.
I think time will tell who will be right and who will be wrong. But it would not be a good to put all your money down on this river NOT surpassing the Delaware fishery. If a few changes can be put in place, I think amazing things can happen on this river. WHY? Everything is lining up for it to happen. The Study the Corps is completing is showing some very promising results. It has already been determined that releases from FEW can influence water temps down to the Glen Onoko/Jim Thorpe area consistently. Now, the key is to get the fisheries releases cold.
If FEW can release cold 55 F (+/-) deg water consistently during the summer months, the upper 10 -12 miles should remain cool enough down to where the tributaries kick in their coldwater, then trout friendly temps should hold up for a good distance down river.
Yes, some years will be better than others as a result of rain and more influence from tribs (like last summer). Some years will there will be less miles of trout favorable temp water, as a resutl of weather we are experiencing this summer. This is a result of less trib influence. However, the more miles we can sustain, even in dry/hot summers, the trout will find the cold water to survive and remain there untill they can spread back out.
As for reproduction, I believe the tribs will be the lifeblood of this river for its wild trout. The east side tribs in the gorge hold good numbers of wild trout and good spawing habitat. I've witnessed video of fish running up them already and spawning. The reason the trout don't spawn in the Lehigh now is because water temps every year exceed 68F. Typically trout won't spawn in streams/river that normally exceed 68F. THey will seek out the cooler tribs to do their business.
Even if they don't reproduce, this years evidence from the fingerling survey have shown that these fish can survive with some astonishing growth rates. Nothing is wrong with a fingerling stocked fishery. When they grow big enough, they look and act like a wild trout anyway.
The small population of wild trout in this river are the base for better wild trout populations in future...just add coldwater all summer long.
You can still have a great fishery with a mix of wild and holdover trout. Last summer was excellent, this summer is mouch tough yes but EVERY fishery has these cycles, including the Delaware. The Delaware may still trump the Lehigh in terms of fishing purely for wild trout however I think the Lehigh may already match it in terms of catching large trout (holdover or wild) from a large river system. The average fly anglers is going to have a large leaning curve to catch trout on the D whereas on the Lehigh its not quite so much. Decent skills and a good drift often result in a good day of fishing on the Lehigh. I think you may be discounting the ongoing efforts to improve fishery releases, you seem to be counting on the fact that no improvements will be gained when that hasn't been the case so far. Just getting the ACOE to realize there is also value in fishery releases (as opposed to only whitewater releases) is an improvement. Improving the release portals on the tower will go a long way in better conserving the coldwater pool, that's something that is being worked on. As a guide on this river I assume you're somewhat involved with these efforts but perhaps not?
As for the tribs, trout don't typically spawn in the mouths of tributaries but rather travel quite a distance upstream to suitable habitat, I think some of these tribs are suitable. The mouth of the Aquashicola is unfortunately still a superfund site and polluted (that's why its crystal clear inviting water but with nothing growing in it) however upstream it has a healthy and growing population of wild trout and holdovers. Ever fish the upstream portions? Lizard Creek holds trout too. I think there is enough spawning habitat in the tribs and even portions of the main river to support a rather robust wild trout population if and when there is better conservation & use of the coldwater pool in FEW. It's already established that habitat is very much suitable for a stellar holdover popultion and fingerling survivability & growth.
Aside from the serious anglers on the Upper D, people flock to the Beaverkill and Willowemoc to enjoy good fishing for a mix of stocked and wild fish. No reason people wouldn't want to come to the Lehigh to sample the same level or better of outstanding fishing.
I've fished numerous destination-type trout waters up and down the East from the Tuck and Nantahala in North Carolina, the Beamoc and Upper D systems in NY, West Branch Ausable and other Adirondack rivers also in NY, as well as the incredible Upper Connecticut River in New Hampshire and the Lehigh is pretty darned close to most of them and improving.
As for the tribs, trout don't typically spawn in the mouths of tributaries but rather travel quite a distance upstream to suitable habitat, I think some of these tribs are suitable. The mouth of the Aquashicola is unfortunately still a superfund site and polluted (that's why its crystal clear inviting water but with nothing growing in it) however upstream it has a healthy and growing population of wild trout and holdovers. Ever fish the upstream portions? Lizard Creek holds trout too. I think there is enough spawning habitat in the tribs and even portions of the main river to support a rather robust wild trout population if and when there is better conservation & use of the coldwater pool in FEW. It's already established that habitat is very much suitable for a stellar holdover popultion and fingerling survivability & growth.
Aside from the serious anglers on the Upper D, people flock to the Beaverkill and Willowemoc to enjoy good fishing for a mix of stocked and wild fish. No reason people wouldn't want to come to the Lehigh to sample the same level or better of outstanding fishing.
I've fished numerous destination-type trout waters up and down the East from the Tuck and Nantahala in North Carolina, the Beamoc and Upper D systems in NY, West Branch Ausable and other Adirondack rivers also in NY, as well as the incredible Upper Connecticut River in New Hampshire and the Lehigh is pretty darned close to most of them and improving.
