PFBC Quarterly Meeting to be Held on April 28

jifigz said:
You're saying that if the dam was removed at Galeton that you think Pine would be one of the best wild trout fisheries in the state? I have only fished pine twice or so, and it was near Ansonia. I hated that experience. The water was warm. The banks were nothing but knotweed.

Is the dam at Galeton the primary cause of the water warming so much?
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I’m no expert in the hydrology of that area, but it seems that the lack of meaningful underground springs and runoff being the primary contributor to flows is the chief issue. I think the only way pine could ever be a truly sustainable wild trout fishery would be via the addition of cold water from a massive tailwater akin to one of the NYC reservoirs on the upper delaware.

I also understand prior to significant logging there used to be a lot more hemlock, beech, maple, and birch cover along with rhododendrons even in the river valleys that probably kept them cool enough to hold native brook trout which could access the tributaries in the low summer months.

Kettle and first fork are a bit more interesting bc they do have more sustaining WT populations. I’m willing to give the big Pine to the truck chasers, but some of those other cricks really ought to be looked at more closely- which is I suppose what Dr Sticks is getting at.
 
jifigz said:
You're saying that if the dam was removed at Galeton that you think Pine would be one of the best wild trout fisheries in the state? I have only fished pine twice or so, and it was near Ansonia. I hated that experience. The water was warm. The banks were nothing but knotweed.

Is the dam at Galeton the primary cause of the water warming so much?
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You should see the amount of fish that die trying to move upsteam some years.

If those fish could advance and find refuge, if people stopped harassing the ones pooled up at tributary mouths etc....I think Pine would be one of the best STOCKED/ wild trout fisheries in the state.

Keep in mind the criterion I'm using goes well beyond fish population numbers and more on over all experience, the area it is in etc
 
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Exhibit A

BradFromPotter

Thread 'Dead trout on Pine'

Here's a photo of just some of the dead trout on Pine near Galeton :-(


5990634991_8627969780_o.jpg
 
I think that if Commissioner Brock recused himself from the votes that directly and very close inderectly impact his business, it would go a long way in putting this argument at bay. He hasn't. That is the biggest issue to me. He isn't even trying to appear to be an arms length away.
 
The Rodfather said:
I think that if Commissioner Brock recused himself from the votes that directly and very close inderectly impact his business, it would go a long way in putting this argument at bay. He hasn't. That is the biggest issue to me. He isn't even trying to appear to be an arms length away.
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This I also agree with.
I agree with Roofin that I doubt anything illegal happened but it certainly doesn't appear to be ethical, which by the PFBC policy on ethics is in violation. They consider those that appear to be conflicts of interest to be just as damaging as actual cases and commissioners should street clear of putting themselves in such situations.

But since it's PFBC policy, it can be violated or ignored😂
 
sixfootfenwick said:
This I also agree with.
I agree with Roofin that I doubt anything illegal happened but it certainly doesn't appear to be ethical, which by the PFBC policy on ethics is in violation. They consider those that appear to be conflicts of interest to be just as damaging as actual cases and commissioners should street clear of putting themselves in such situations.

But since it's PFBC policy, it can be violated or ignored😂
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As I attempted to snark above, it definitely gives me Barclays DSR conflict of interest vibes
 
I don’t like stocked trout. I wish they didn’t stock.
But what the heck? Why do guys keep saying the silliest things? and you guys reading…. Thumbs up 👍 lmao.
Cznymph said:
I don’t think its acceptable for my license dollars to be paying for upgrades to the facility in which these tagged fish are raised, regardless if the fish are PFBC co-op allotted fish, or fish purchased from a private facility.

Straub Beer is using these tagged fish as an advertising promotion and will likely receive increased revenue as result. If they want to do this, there’s no reason that they can’t buy the fish directly from a private hatchery and place them directly in the water.
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Sorry Cznyph I love you man, not picking on you. Just needed an example. You finishing with ….Why can’t they do the thing they are known for? Spending tons of money on recreational fishing is what they do.

They(straub brewery) buy thousands and thousands of trout and stock them. Without tags. They spend thousands of dollars on the ones without tags. This is a well known fact. I’ve never even caught a tagged one. And I’ve caught 1000’s of Straub brewery stocked fish. And I barely stocky fish. 2 months a year tops.
You guys can’t be against the slate run brown trout club because he stocks too many free trout. Then turn around and support that the fish commission should keep the money and spend the money poorly on stocking sickly mutant dinks. 🙂
You guys would rather the fish commission stocked sections? Of any creek…?… Over the straub beer stocked sections? Be honest. Come on that’s fake news…

That tells me you guys either have never fished those sections of streams the Saint Mary beer man stocks, or you prefer the fish commission spends the money, more money on worse stocking of the same creek sections but with tiny rainbows. No you don’t. No one here can say that with a straight face. You’d be lying.

Why are you guys pretending that this guy isn’t doing things infinitely better than the fish commission when it comes to stocking. The fish commission invented an entire new classification of stocked waters to mimic and copy his success. The Straub beer Chinese knock off a.k.a The Keystone select designation, which was entirely created as a way to cash in on his improvements to the old stocking system. “They had no choice but to follow suit. “
I strongly dislike stocking. I rarely fish for stocked trout and I love native brook trout.

But get real, fishing any section the state stocks feels like a waste of time compared to fishing the sections he stocks. He just does it way better. Nothing (it feels like)
under 15”-17” goes in the creek, he buys unique strains of browns and rainbows. Healthy fins, pink meat. How can you ethically want to take money away from him and give it back to the mushmouth factory?

The more money and resources that went to him and his ideas for stocking the better the stocking would be. 8-11” rainbows are the worst. By being against Straub beer and commissioner Brock you are supporting 8” and 9”stocked rainbows in high numbers. Because that’s what it was before him.
Feel free to rip into me fellows. I admit I’m silly. Am I the only guy that thinks like this?
Like if you are gonna stock, why half a$$ it ?
~5footfenwick
 
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5footfenwick said:
I don’t like stocked trout. I wish they didn’t stock.
But what the heck? Why do guys keep saying the silliest things? and you guys reading…. Thumbs up 👍 lmao.

Sorry Cznyph I love you man, not picking on you. Just needed an example. You finishing with ….Why can’t they do the thing they are known for? Spending tons of money on recreational fishing is what they do.

They(straub brewery) buy thousands and thousands of trout and stock them. Without tags. They spend thousands of dollars on the ones without tags. This is a well known fact. I’ve never even caught a tagged one. And I’ve caught 1000’s of Straub brewery stocked fish. And I barely stocky fish. 2 months a year tops.
You guys can’t be against the slate run brown trout club because he stocks too many free trout. Then turn around and support that the fish commission should keep the money and spend the money poorly on stocking sickly mutant dinks. 🙂
You guys would rather the fish commission stocked sections? Of any creek…?… Over the straub beer stocked sections? Be honest. Come on that’s fake news…

That tells me you guys either have never fished those sections of streams the Saint Mary beer man stocks, or you prefer the fish commission spends the money, more money on worse stocking of the same creek sections but with tiny rainbows. No you don’t. No one here can say that with a straight face. You’d be lying.

Why are you guys pretending that this guy isn’t doing things infinitely better than the fish commission when it comes to stocking. The fish commission invented an entire new classification of stocked waters to mimic and copy his success. The Straub beer Chinese knock off a.k.a The Keystone select designation, which was entirely created as a way to cash in on his improvements to the old stocking system. “They had no choice but to follow suit. “
I strongly dislike stocking. I rarely fish for stocked trout and I love native brook trout.

But get real, fishing any section the state stocks feels like a waste of time compared to fishing the sections he stocks. He just does it way better. Nothing under 15”-17” goes in the creek, he buys unique strains of browns and rainbows. Healthy fins, pink meat. How can you ethically want to take money away from him and give it back to the mushmouth factory?

The more money and resources that went to him and his ideas for stocking the better the stocking would be. 8-11” rainbows are the worst. By being against Straub beer and commissioner Brock you are supporting 8” and 9”stocked rainbows in high numbers. Because that’s what it was before him.
Feel free to rip into me fellows. I admit I’m silly. Am I the only guy that thinks like this?
Like if you are gonna stock, why half a$$ it ?
~5footfenwick
Click to expand...
There is a lot here and so much has been said on this subject.

I'm going to simplify it all down to your last sentence.

"Like if you are gonna stock, why half a$$ it ?"

Yes, agree.
Rather than blindly throwing as many fish as we can into as many waters as we can (not exactly accurate), why are we taking the easy way out?

Why spend as much monies as we do on so many fish that won't survive, year in and year out, while good land and streams get posted up or waste away?

Stock smarter. Stock responsibility. Stock with in our means. Stock without over doing it.

Start being stewards of the resource. Start filtering our monies into access, restoration and enhancement.

Stop half a$$ing wild trout and stocked trout management.

Otherwise, why stock at all?
 
5footfenwick said:
I don’t like stocked trout. I wish they didn’t stock.
But what the heck? Why do guys keep saying the silliest things? and you guys reading…. Thumbs up 👍 lmao.

Sorry Cznyph I love you man, not picking on you. Just needed an example. You finishing with ….Why can’t they do the thing they are known for? Spending tons of money on recreational fishing is what they do.

They(straub brewery) buy thousands and thousands of trout and stock them. Without tags. They spend thousands of dollars on the ones without tags. This is a well known fact. I’ve never even caught a tagged one. And I’ve caught 1000’s of Straub brewery stocked fish. And I barely stocky fish. 2 months a year tops.
You guys can’t be against the slate run brown trout club because he stocks too many free trout. Then turn around and support that the fish commission should keep the money and spend the money poorly on stocking sickly mutant dinks. 🙂
You guys would rather the fish commission stocked sections? Of any creek…?… Over the straub beer stocked sections? Be honest. Come on that’s fake news…

That tells me you guys either have never fished those sections of streams the Saint Mary beer man stocks, or you prefer the fish commission spends the money, more money on worse stocking of the same creek sections but with tiny rainbows. No you don’t. No one here can say that with a straight face. You’d be lying.

Why are you guys pretending that this guy isn’t doing things infinitely better than the fish commission when it comes to stocking. The fish commission invented an entire new classification of stocked waters to mimic and copy his success. The Straub beer Chinese knock off a.k.a The Keystone select designation, which was entirely created as a way to cash in on his improvements to the old stocking system. “They had no choice but to follow suit. “
I strongly dislike stocking. I rarely fish for stocked trout and I love native brook trout.

But get real, fishing any section the state stocks feels like a waste of time compared to fishing the sections he stocks. He just does it way better. Nothing under 15”-17” goes in the creek, he buys unique strains of browns and rainbows. Healthy fins, pink meat. How can you ethically want to take money away from him and give it back to the mushmouth factory?

The more money and resources that went to him and his ideas for stocking the better the stocking would be. 8-11” rainbows are the worst. By being against Straub beer and commissioner Brock you are supporting 8” and 9”stocked rainbows in high numbers. Because that’s what it was before him.
Feel free to rip into me fellows. I admit I’m silly. Am I the only guy that thinks like this?
Like if you are gonna stock, why half a$$ it ?
~5footfenwick
Click to expand...
If they are buying stocked trout, why do they need to have the Potter County Anglers raise trout for their tagged fish contest?
 
sixfootfenwick said:
There is a lot here and so much has been said on this subject.

I'm going to simplify it all down to your last sentence.

"Like if you are gonna stock, why half a$$ it ?"

Yes, agree.
Rather than blindly throwing as many fish as we can into as many waters as we can (not exactly accurate), why are we taking the easy way out?

Why spend as much monies as we do on so many fish that won't survive, year in and year out, while good land and streams get posted up or waste away?

Stock smarter. Stock responsibility. Stock with in our means. Stock without over doing it.

Start being stewards of the resource. Start filtering our monies into access, restoration and enhancement.

Stop half a$$ing wild trout and stocked trout management.

Otherwise, why stock at all?
Click to expand...
I completely agree. I should have been more concise.
 
Mike said:
I don’t think Commissioners should NOT be involved in stocking decisions and that includes whether or not a stream, river, or lake is added to or deleted from a stocking program.
Click to expand...
I misfired above with a double negative.
What I meant to say will be clear if you ignore the word “NOT.”
 
Mike said:
I misfired above with a double negative.
What I meant to say will be clear if you ignore the word “NOT.”
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If that is the case, I agree with you.
We have AFM's for a reason.

We don't always agree on things, but I would defer to you. I at least believe, and you have said, you try to regulate your decisions or recommendations on science. I can respect that.

I'm not sure what commissioners base stocking on. I mean, I have ideas....
 
Mike said:
I misfired above with a double negative.
What I meant to say will be clear if you ignore the word “NOT.”
Click to expand...
I’d like to actually see the commissioners only handle busywork 🙂 Let the biologists do the decision making. Definitely get some more manpower for the biologist surveys and crews. (perhaps cold water and warm water units collaborate) Biologists handle natural reproduction systems. The biologists vote and the biologists make the decisions anywhere they find even a single wild trout of any species. Why not let the most educated fisheries specialists make the final calls?

If it must be stocked and it comes down to Brock and a 17” stocked brownie that looks kinda wildish to the untrained eye vs. the 11” state stocked run of the mill rainbow. It’s easy to see why he is popular. Of all the guys that Brookie guys could be getting after. Seems like the guy that wants to stock less trout, but bigger, isn’t the main problem. I respect 🫡 your guys opinion that I’m a goof.
 
In reference to the pine creek discussion, let's play a game of wild or stocked.

IMG_0056.jpeg
IMG_0055.jpeg

*There was some red on the adipose that really wasn't captured on the picture
 
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