Penns Creek, Centre Co, 4/2/2023

[Fish Sticks]

Does anyone remember if this brookie bump happened a year or two after several sections of penns were taken off stocking list? For the life of me I can’t explain why now after low and hot years in Penns we are seeing this?

 

[Fish Sticks]

I am heading down to penns on Tuesday and with this weather in 80’s picturing an all at once shot gun super hatch with caddis hendricksons early sulphurs and me acidentally ingesting 30g protein of aquatic macros with too many naturals on the water to entice a fish.

 

[wildtrout2]

Here is another Brookie on penns I caught in the winter. Definitely has “muted” colors but I don’t think they are stocked IMO

Looks wild to me as well. Fins are perfect.

 

[troutbert]

Does anyone remember if this brookie bump happened a year or two after several sections of penns were taken off stocking list? For the life of me I can’t explain why now after low and hot years in Penns we are seeing this?

I'm also puzzled about the cause of increased brookie populations in Penns, if that is actually happening.

One possible explanation is that many of the tribs were formerly stocked, and now are not. Such as Cherry Run, Weikert Run, and Swift Run. Poe Creek is still stocked, but I've heard they've greatly reduced the stocking, especially from Little Poe down to the mouth.

Ending stocking in these tribs may have improved their brookie populations, which could benefit the number of brookies in Penns. I'm hoping that's what happened, but maybe it's wishful thinking.

 

[ROVERT]

I've fished Penns more than any other stream since 2015. I would not say there has been a recent bump in brook trout based on my catch rate. I believe I've caught a few every year and I don't get to fish nearly as much as I'd like to. I caught my first of year last night. I don't recall catching many, if any, on nymphs. They always seem to come on a dry fly.

 

[Wild_Trouter]

In the last several years, I've caught several brookies in Coburn near the confluence with Elk Creek. FWIW, I've also caught wild brookies in Weikert and my best guess is that they find Penns's conditions hospitable for at least part of the year depending on overall conditions at the time. There are several Class A tribs down that way so this seems plausible, though I do believe the highest concentrations to be found are near Cherry Run and upstream based on my catch rates each year. They really like dries as someone else said, and I really wonder if the overall water quality isn't somehow improving upstream that is serving as the catalyst? If this continues, I'll be fishing BFC even less since big water brookies were the primary draw for me there.

 

[Fish Sticks]

I've fished Penns more than any other stream since 2015. I would not say there has been a recent bump in brook trout based on my catch rate. I believe I've caught a few every year and I don't get to fish nearly as much as I'd like to. I caught my first of year last night. I don't recall catching many, if any, on nymphs. They always seem to come on a dry fly.

Rick Niles gives a presentation and it came to my local TU chapter 4 or 5 years ago and he said his sky blue guides average like one a year in penns near one tributary. My catch rate has increased in past 3 years and people have been posting 50/50 in some stretches last year on one of the penns threads I remember. Its usually the skinnier less desirable water or shallow riffles where I get more of them.

 

[troutbert]

In the last several years, I've caught several brookies in Coburn near the confluence with Elk Creek.

Those are probably stockies. There is private party stocking going on in that area.

Both Elk and PIne are brown trout streams in their lower mileages. Both streams do hold native brook trout, but quite a ways upstream from Coburn.

 

[Swattie87]

Does anyone remember if this brookie bump happened a year or two after several sections of penns were taken off stocking list? For the life of me I can’t explain why now after low and hot years in Penns we are seeing this?

I’m wondering if extremely low water (like dry, or at least non continuous flow) conditions on the tribs forced the Brookies DOWN into Penns during the extremely low flow Summers we’ve recently had. I suspect Swift and Panther may have seen conditions like that. Cherry, Weikert, and Poe are a good bit bigger, but still possible. I found non-continuous flow on Hammersley Fork, mid-watershed, the last few years. Just a thought. I don’t know, just another potential angle to consider. They got down there, found suitable, or at least survivable conditions, and stayed?

Definitely some streams in the Loyalsock drainage that were completely dry for significant lengths the last few years.

 

[Fish Sticks]

I’m wondering if extremely low water (like dry, or at least non continuous flow) conditions on the tribs forced the Brookies DOWN into Penns during the extremely low flow Summers we’ve recently had. I suspect Swift and Panther may have seen conditions like that. Cherry, Weikert, and Poe are a good bit bigger, but still possible. I found non-continuous flow on Hammersley Fork, mid-watershed, the last few years. Just a thought. I don’t know, just another potential angle to consider. They got down there, found suitable, or at least survivable conditions, and stayed?

Definitely some streams in the Loyalsock drainage that were completely dry for significant lengths the last few years.

Yea thats a good thought i’m guessing some small upwellings near the bank in some of those riffles you find them in that make small cold areas or downstream of the tribs.

 

[Fish Sticks]

I’m wondering if extremely low water (like dry, or at least non continuous flow) conditions on the tribs forced the Brookies DOWN into Penns during the extremely low flow Summers we’ve recently had. I suspect Swift and Panther may have seen conditions like that. Cherry, Weikert, and Poe are a good bit bigger, but still possible. I found non-continuous flow on Hammersley Fork, mid-watershed, the last few years. Just a thought. I don’t know, just another potential angle to consider. They got down there, found suitable, or at least survivable conditions, and stayed?

Definitely some streams in the Loyalsock drainage that were completely dry for significant lengths the last few years.

Theres also an island with a side channel in Poe paddy with a cabins back yard on the other side of the island that has a massive spring coming into the side channel near the flybrary parking lot. I wonder if spots like that get used

 

[pcray1231]

I don't catch small brookies in Penns. And it makes sense to me that young do not survive. The ones in there likely enter at a decent size from tribs and then grow.

Best guess is floods. The area flooded in 2018 and again in 2021. Penns has brookie tribs from Spring Mills to down below Weikert.. The one off Brush Mountain. Elk/Pine upper reaches. Those ones that dump in at Ingleby. Poe, Panther, Swift (which is improving), Cherry, Weikert, etc. If each flood brings a slug of adults down, one every 3 years so will do it. If you go 4 or 5 withput a flood the numbers should then decrease.

But yeah, one a year used to be maybe the normal. It's closer to one a day anymore, not 50/50, but maybe an honest 10%. My last trip I did not catch any. But, at last years jam I got 2 in an evening (Brodwaters).

 

[lycoflyfisher]

If these larger brookies were increasing in number and moving into the tribs, I think we would here about it more often. I had a great day on Cherry Run during a high water event during late summer 2018. I doubt I caught a 12in brookie, but I caught double digit fish over 9inches. I have tried to replicate that success about 1x a year since and have not came close.

I am not making any guesses on population trends of st in Penns, but if there was suddenly an increase in large brook trout in Cherry Run, Weikert Run etc. I don't think it would be kept a secret.

 

[Wild_Trouter]

Those are probably stockies. There is private party stocking going on in that area.

Both Elk and PIne are brown trout streams in their lower mileages. Both streams do hold native brook trout, but quite a ways upstream from Coburn.

Dwight- I'm positive that they were wild brookies in the Coburn area below the mouth of Elk Creek. The fish were 5"-7" in length and the coloration was not what one would see from a hatchery product. I know all about Elk and Pine as I fish them frequently. I have my theories on why they were there.

 

[Fish Sticks]

I don't catch small brookies in Penns. And it makes sense to me that young do not survive. The ones in there likely enter at a decent size from tribs and then grow.

Best guess is floods. The area flooded in 2018 and again in 2021. Penns has brookie tribs from Spring Mills to down below Weikert.. The one off Brush Mountain. Elk/Pine upper reaches. Those ones that dump in at Ingleby. Poe, Panther, Swift (which is improving), Cherry, Weikert, etc. If each flood brings a slug of adults down, one every 3 years so will do it. If you go 4 or 5 withput a flood the numbers should then decrease.

yea YoY brookies would never survive in penns even if there is reproduction in penns happening at all those age zero brookies will be eaten. I wonder if any of the shallow side channels have reproduction like down stream across stream to swift run? If there is any at all their no doubt consumed by browns id wager. But I suspect Pcray is right that the tribs is where they are coming from.

 

[Wild_Trouter]

If these larger brookies were increasing in number and moving into the tribs, I think we would here about it more often. I had a great day on Cherry Run during a high water event during late summer 2018. I doubt I caught a 12in brookie, but I caught double digit fish over 9inches. I have tried to replicate that success about 1x a year since and have not came close.

I am not making any guesses on population trends of st in Penns, but if there was suddenly an increase in large brook trout in Cherry Run, Weikert Run etc. I don't think it would be kept a secret.

I'm with you on this. I fish Cherry, Swift, Panther, Lick, Coral, Henstep, Old Mingle, and more. I've only ever caught ST up to 10" in any of those places with regularity. Only once did I catch a 12" ST out of Lower Panther and one from Cherry Run. I'm of the mindset that Penns ST are evolving and using the tribs for spawning and Summer refuge, but given the conditions of Penns- bug factory, etc , I think they've found it to their liking the rest of the year. Convince me otherwise- I'm all ears 👂👍

 

[Fish Sticks]

I'm with you on this. I fish Cherry, Swift, Panther, Lick, Coral, Henstep, Old Mingle, and more. I've only ever caught ST up to 10" in any of those places with regularity. Only once did I catch a 12" ST out of Lower Panther and one from Cherry Run. I'm of the mindset that Penns ST are evolving and using the tribs for spawning and Summer refuge, but given the conditions of Penns- bug factory, etc , I think they've found it to their liking the rest of the year. Convince me otherwise- I'm all ears 👂👍

Thats what i would guess too, repro in tribs and growing season in colder months in Penns

 

[pcray1231]

But they are in Penns in summer too.

I was not suggesting they go UP tribs much. I was suggesting in high water situations, a number of 6+ inchers come down. Big enough to escape browns. Brook trout live 4 or 5 years, so if a 1 or 2 year old fish comes down, its around for a few years, and it doesn't take long to "get up to size" in Penns Creek.

 

[Wild_Trouter]

But they are in Penns in summer too.

I was not suggesting they go UP tribs much. I was suggesting in high water situations, a number of 6+ inchers come down. Big enough to escape browns. Brook trout live 4 or 5 years, so if a 1 or 2 year old fish comes down, its around for a few years, and it doesn't take long to "get up to size" in Penns Creek.

We're on the same page here. I do catch a few brookies in early Summer on Penns, and if we have a wet Summer, I can find them for a little longer. The bulk of my brookies on Penns come during the Spring. My #'s do tail off toward Summer until early Winter. As for them running up tribs, I do believe that does occur at three locations that I know of. I say this because one would be hard-pressed to find a brookie >7"-8" during the rest of the year where I'm referring, yet during the Fall, brook trout that size including quite a few of 9"-10" (occasionally 11"-12" fish) miraculously show up seemingly from nowhere to spawn.

 

[discomidge]

FWIW I camped out on Penns Thursday and Friday night and over the course of a couple days caught barrels of fish, and all of them were browns. But last year at this time I had multiple trips where I caught more brookies than browns. Go figure. But then once it hit May I didn't catch another brookie.