Monocacy creek, Northampton co, 6/1/09

[PhilC]

Was out in the trophy trout section last night. Got to the stream around 8:15. Saw sulphurs hatching and also picked some spinners up off the water. There were also some dark caddis popping around.
There were fish rising, fairly agressive emerger type rises with a few sips here and there.
I have started to look for new spots as I have pretty much given up on my old "go-to" sections, that haven't produced well since all the floods a few years back.
I'm usually on the flats looking to fish on top. The section I was in last night used to be ok, but now seems deeper where my old spots have gotten shallower.
Anywho, I got 2 wild brown and missed 3. Was happy that one was around 12" and put up a decent fight. It was my first decent/mature fish yet this year versus the typical 8-9" second year fish, which is what the other fish was. I don't get out as much as I used to and pretty bummed on missing fish. I used to expect hardly ever missing a fish that gulps a dry fly. But anywho it was good to get out, get into some action, and relearn the stream a bit.

 

[looken4it]

I fish the Monocacy from the bridge at the entrance to the park down stream, three to four times a week. Generally fish from 6am til 9am. Just can't seem to hook up on dry flies tho..guess it gotta be my "tekneek". Pick up some on ants, Griffiths gnats and BWO but just can't seem to get the right fly for the right situation. Lots of fish rising around 7:30 am but thought it was kinda early for tricos. (Do have #20 Trico but takes me 1/2 hr to thread and tie the knot) Loose one fly and I gotta go home for the day to retie). The A"town shop only suggests Tricos and some kinda mousy/rat thing.

 

[tomgamber]

I bet if you tried 6 to 9 PM you might get some better dry fly fishing...

 

[gfen]

I managed to sneak out last night from about 7 til late, 9ish, in the Illicks Mill section. Nothing. I had one rise to a Royal Wulff, which I wasn't expecting.

 

[dryflyguy]

looken4it:

Were you fishing a dun or spinner?
They were probably taking duns at 7:30

 

[jayL]

looken4it wrote:
The A"town shop only suggests Tricos and some kinda mousy/rat thing.

Al's rat.

It's a midge pupa, and it's killer anywhere the fish eat small stuff.

Try one as a dropper behind your favorite dry.

 

[looken4it]

Getlemen,
Thanks for all the replies. I'm sure some did not get the pun about the A'town mousy/rat thing. Believe there is more to it than Tricos and Al's rat.

Thanks

 

[jfetkin]

So im confused,,wouldnt you expect there to be bigger fish in a trophy trout project section of the stream? wild fish are an exception to the rule,, I learned something very cool the other day concerning wild trout. If a trout is going to spawn it will not grow at all that year as all the engery and nutrition that the fish has goes to egg and milt development. so if a fish is spawning every year it is very possible to have a fish that is like 5 years old and still be only like 8-10 inches in size. some fish dont spawn every year so during that year they will put on size. Im not sure what is the decideing factors on weather the fish will spawn in a given year,Im sure it depends on a whole lot of factors.
But my point was dont they stock larger fish in the trophy waters ? or is it just different regulations that make it a quote unquote trophy trout project?

 

[gfen]

They don't stock the TT reg waters. Period.

I'd have to check the maps, but I'm pretty sure they don't stock upstream of TT, either, at least until you get to that stretch along 191 north of Brodhead Rd.

(Well, mostly, there's a private club at Township Line Rd and Santee Mill Rd that's got about 100 yards of stream. They have, in the past stocked and then fenced it off. I haven't seen it this year, however the fish would have to move downstream a significant distance in order to reach the TT section)

They heavily stock the Illicks Mill park, which will then wash down below the bridge and into the "unstocked" section. I'm not sure where the stocking point picks up again downstream, either, but I wouldn't be surprised if its not 'til the Historic Bethlehem area below Broad St.

 

[jfetkin]

so then wtf,,what is up with the trophy trout section,,is the big fish there? if they dont stock and philc was happy with a 12 incher that dosent sound very trophy like to me

 

[JeffS]

jfetkin -
Work a little bit of the stream and you will find trout greater than 12". Not a lot of them, but you will find them. Check the PFBC website for the latest stream survey of the TT section. I believe fish were found up to 16 inches.

If I remember correctly, the Monocay is stocked at Meadow Park which is at the intersection of Broadhead Rd. and Rt. 191. I believe the county owns this park and this may be the lowest stocking point on the stream above the TT section. Does that makes sense?

The Monocacy is also stocked below the Illck's Mill Rd. bridge. If memory serves me right, they also stock by the section around the racquetball club and Casillio's before going into Johnson Park below W. Union Blvd.

The bottom line is...the fishing is good in this stream year round. Can you find some big ones - yes. Are they plentiful - it depends on your definition of plentiful.

 

[fly_flinger]

I always looked at TT sections as areas where the fish "could" be bigger because of the regulations. In order to keep a fish in the TT section, it has to be over 14". That's not to say there are tons of fish that are over 14" only that you need to catch one that is in order to keep it, if so desired. In my experience, the TT sections are not where the larger fish tend to be.

 

[PhilC]

Wow I'm I'm glad this sparked some good convo.
Here is a recent study by the PFBC:
http://www.fish.state.pa.us/images/fisheries/afm/2009/5x01_16monocacy.htm

IMO the count of fish over 14" is pretty weak. Before the floods a few years ago I used to catch fish over 14" on the regs, and since the stream was altered I don't get nearly the same action. So this report seems accurate. My old go to stretches have changed buy I still don't get nearly the same action when I explore different areas.

I used to catch wild trout in the Mill in the summer/after the stockie hoards have died down but have had much this year either.

For dry fly action I hit the flats, which is I think is typical for spring fed brownies. Never did too well with dries right below the park, I think because the flat water is pretty deep.

Hands down most productive dry for me is a 16 beetle, sometime I switch to smaller ants if they're getting picky. I love when they'll go for hoppers and I use a letort hopper with a curved hook (partridge klinkhammer). That said, it looks like I'm a terrestrial guy but it's because I do much better now in
terrestrial season on top than I do in prime mayfly time.

I do catch stockies in the trophy section. There's a rod and gun club just above 512 that stocks and there's not
too much stopping them from venturing down stream. In fact I caught 2 9" 'bows in a row at bridle path and that pissed me off...especially since the wild browns seem to be struggling.

I've never fished this stream for tricos but plan to this year. I only use size 24 flies for this hatch and I really like a female dun pattern with an abdomen of flourescent chartruese floss and a snowshoe bunny wing tied comparadun style.
Dang I need get some new gear...my waders leaks and my boots have totally fallen apart

 

[afishinado]

PhilC wrote:
Wow I'm I'm glad this sparked some good convo.



Just FYI, some good info and discussion about the the Monocacy report in this post about from a while back. A lot of sparks....but no fire.

http://www.paflyfish.com/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=6278&forum=6&post_id=61509#forumpost61509

 

[gfen]

PhilC wrote:
I used to catch wild trout in the Mill in the summer/after the stockie hoards have died down but have had much this year either.

I did really well through here on wild browns up until the two contests they ran in June. At that point, it fell apart.

I'm convinced that the two weekends, plus the week between and following, of heavy meat-taker presence hammering the stream relentlessly is what did it in. I've stopped doing lunch up there (too hot), but when I try on the nicer days, I'm lucky if I sting one fish, much less bring multiple fish to hand in that hour.

Down stream from teh park, there's a few spots I've hit a time or two. Those haven't been particularly productive for me, either.

 

[salvelinusfontinalis]

I did really well through here on wild browns up until the two contests they ran in June. At that point, it fell apart. I'm convinced that the two weekends, plus the week between and following, of heavy meat-taker presence hammering the stream relentlessly is what did it in. I've stopped doing lunch up there (too hot), but when I try on the nicer days, I'm lucky if I sting one fish, much less bring multiple fish to hand in that hour. Down stream from teh park, there's a few spots I've hit a time or two. Those haven't been particularly productive for me, either.

Welcome to PA Wild Trout Management :roll:

 

[JeffS]

So two fishing contests "did in" the wild trout population?

Did the contest goers catch all of the wild trout over the two weekends?

It is interesting the wild trout in that stretch survived fishing pressure associated with the opening day of trout season, and subsequent in-season stockings, to provide good fishing right up to the contests, but they couldn't manage to make it past these two events.

 

[salvelinusfontinalis]

I dont think that is what he witnessed Jeff. And he never said they caught them all. He did say it did them in, which i have seen before.

The fishing derby on Wyomissing has the wild trout hiding for weeks and even months. They are unable to take decent lies and spend most of the day hiding under rocks.

What this will do is limit thier growth during these time frames. It will cause some of them to get eaten. It sets the entire stream out of balance. About 1 1/2 months after the derby it returns to normal.

My only 2 questions, for my example:
Why stock a class a section?
Why did the PFBC give them a permit in the first place?

After talking to the regional office and WCO's about it, the answers were the lamest i had ever heard to date. Welcome to PA Wild Trout Management.

 

[gfen]

JeffS wrote:
So two fishing contests "did in" the wild trout population?
Did the contest goers catch all of the wild trout over the two weekends?
It is interesting the wild trout in that stretch survived fishing pressure associated with the opening day of trout season, and subsequent in-season stockings, to provide good fishing right up to the contests, but they couldn't manage to make it past these two events.

The short stretch which I regularly fish has not recovered since those contests. My own views have been confirmed by other regulars I see through there, who've also stated it seems to be that way through the years, every year.

No doubt, enviroment has something to do with it, as well. Flows are lower, temps are higher, but there seems to be a remarkable change in the amount of fish present pivoted right at that point.

 

[JeffS]

I think it has recovered. A "regular" over there claimed 19 fish took a swipe at his offering during an afternoon of flyfishing this past week.

I am not discounting pressure from the contests put a kink in the wild trout fishing throughout that stretch, but let's not make it seem as thought there are less wild trout in the park as a result of the contests or that contest goers harvested a significant portion of the wild trout.

We are talking about a stream section with limited habitat that was also hit by adverse weather conditions after those contests.

To claim the contests marked a pivotal point in which less wild trout were found in the stream should have set salfon on mission to request supporting data, but no such claim was made.

Instead we are left with flyfishermen not being able to catch fish and assumptions...