Middle branch of Rock Run

[burghwolfe1]

Has anyone fished the middle branch of Rock Run in Black Moshannon State Park? I will be doing a 30 mile backpacking trip early next week and plan on taking either a tenkara rod or my 4 wt. I believe it is a class A stream but was just wondering what to expect.

 

[Swattie87]

Did the same once, fished it on a BPing trip. Mid Spring-ish, but it was fairly cold. Struggled until we got pretty far up (Browns possibly down lower and/or, we sucked?) Once you get up into the meadowy section my recollection is we caught fish, but they were Brookies. “Meh” was how I would describe the fishing. But conditions weren’t ideal (you’ll very likely have far better next week) and we still caught fish. And if you’re gonna be camping along it anyway…

 

[burghwolfe1]

Did the same once, fished it on a BPing trip. Mid Spring-ish, but it was fairly cold. Struggled until we got pretty far up (Browns possibly down lower and/or, we sucked?) Once you get up into the meadowy section my recollection is we caught fish, but they were Brookies. “Meh” was how I would describe the fishing. But conditions weren’t ideal (you’ll very likely have far better next week) and we still caught fish. And if you’re gonna be camping along it anyway…

I'm hoping that I will have the energy to actually do some fishing after walking ten miles. But the weather looks perfect and like you said, I'm camping right by the stream. Chances of me getting skunked are pretty good though, based on my usual success rate.

 

[jifigz]

Allegheny Front is my favorite short-ish backpacking trail in PA. I've hiked it numerous times; it's a gorgeous trail.

Rock Run is a good stream, and the Middle Branch is no different. I never fished it while on my backpacking trip because the goal of the my backpacking trips is just to backpack, but I've been there and fished it other times, and I've liked it. In my opinion, water levels are the most important thing that correlate with good fishing, and they should be good for you.

You really can't go wrong with any of those streams right there in Moshannon State Forest. Just my .02.

 

[burghwolfe1]

That is good to know. I'm doing the east loop of the AF. So 30 miles total. Only 10 miles a day and this time of year that should leave plenty of time to fish. I will certainly report back after my trip.

 

[troutbert]

Has anyone fished it when there was a large beaver pond on the stream? If so, do you remember when this was?

The first time I fished it (late 1980s) there was no beaver pond.

The second time I fished it there (sometime in the 1990s) there was a huge beaver pond, maybe 3 acres, that covered the valley floor from hillslope to hillslope and it had a lot of brook trout. There were surely more brook trout in that beaver pond than in the rest of the stream combined.

The reason we went to the stream was because a fishing buddy from our TU chapter heard about the beaver pond from his brother, who had a camp in the area.

I've gone there about twice since then and the beaver pond was gone.

I talked to an older guy (even older than me) who grew up near Unionville. He had a lot of good hunting and fishing stories from the 1940s and 1950s and 1960s. He talked about there being a big beaver pond there back in the day, but didn't say what year. He said he went again later and the beaver pond was gone.

So, it seems like it sort of alternates between beaver pond and no beaver pond over many decades.

BTW, people on say on this board that "no one fishes" these backcountry streams. But note that several people on this forum have fished it. And that's probably a very small sampling of those who've fished it.

When we fished the beaver pond it was opening day, and besides my buddy and I we saw 2 other guys fishing together, and one guy fishing by himself. He showed us 2 brook trout in his creel.

 

[wildtrout2]

Has anyone fished it when there was a large beaver pond on the stream? If so, do you remember when this was?

The first time I fished it (late 1980s) there was no beaver pond.

The second time I fished it there (sometime in the 1990s) there was a huge beaver pond, maybe 3 acres, that covered the valley floor from hillslope to hillslope and it had a lot of brook trout. There were surely more brook trout in that beaver pond than in the rest of the stream combined.

The reason we went to the stream was because a fishing buddy from our TU chapter heard about the beaver pond from his brother, who had a camp in the area.

I've gone there about twice since then and the beaver pond was gone.

I talked to an older guy (even older than me) who grew up near Unionville. He had a lot of good hunting and fishing stories from the 1940s and 1950s and 1960s. He talked about there being a big beaver pond there back in the day, but didn't say what year. He said he went again later and the beaver pond was gone.

So, it seems like it sort of alternates between beaver pond and no beaver pond over many decades.

BTW, people on say on this board that "no one fishes" these backcountry streams. But note that several people on this forum have fished it. And that's probably a very small sampling of those who've fished it.

When we fished the beaver pond it was opening day, and besides my buddy and I we saw 2 other guys fishing together, and one guy fishing by himself. He showed us 2 brook trout in his creel.

This reminds me of the beaver pond that I fished in Pike county back in the 70's. It was on SGL 180 near Shohola Creek, It was loaded with natives.

 

[5footfenwick]

BTW, people on say on this board that "no one fishes" these backcountry streams. But note that several people on this forum have fished it. And that's probably a very small sampling of those who've fished it.

Great point. There is definitely more small back country anglers than a lot of guys think. I know there is 4-5 guys in my friend group that only fish for native brook trout. That’s it. They don’t fish for anything else ever. You can pick a lot of streams and do a lot of walking without seeing someone else. I think this sometimes gives a false sense of having found the “secret creek”. I suspect most times there are multiple angler’s thinking “secret creek” about the same stream.

 

[lycoflyfisher]

there are some stream sections I like to fish that require significant effort to fish. Either 1+ mile hike with ~1000' of elevation change or walk up or down the stream. Theres more than 10 miles between road crossings. I have encountered other anglers while hunting and fishing several times and got photos of multiple anglers the last week of october a few years back right in the middle of this section.

Its hard to document and quantify angler use on some of these streams, but I agree that it is far from insignificant and probably more than most realize.

 

[wildtrout2]

Great point. There is definitely more small back country anglers than a lot of guys think. I know there is 4-5 guys in my friend group that only fish for native brook trout. That’s it. They don’t fish for anything else ever. You can pick a lot of streams and do a lot of walking without seeing someone else. I think this sometimes gives a false sense of having found the “secret creek”. I suspect most times there are multiple angler’s thinking “secret creek” about the same stream.

I agree. But, there are streams that get very little pressure, relatively speaking. I have four streams that I've fished more than 40 times each in the last 22 years. I can count on one hand the number of fisherman I've seen on either of them. I've actually seen more hikers and campers.

 

[ANF-Hiker]

Like jifigz, I rarely fish while on a backpacking trip because I tend to over plan for miles and decide to hike more than fish, but I usually take a small spin rod or something to make an attempt in a stream if I pass one. It's worth a shot, anyway. Enjoy!

 

[ANF-Hiker]

I agree. But, there are streams that get very little pressure, relatively speaking. I have four streams that I've fished more than 40 times each in the last 22 years. I can count on one hand the number of fisherman I've seen on either of them. I've actually seen more hikers and campers.

Yes, even if a handful of us have fished a given stream (and one along a semi popular backpacking trail that's a known Class A is probably a little more likely than most), you're probably not getting more than a half dozen people on most of these smaller trickles in a given year. Maybe add a few more guys who leave the stocked hole to "fish natives" for a half hour on opening week in the lower couple hundred yards of water if that's an option.

I've personally got 268 streams on my "list" of PA fished streams and I've only ever seen two other people fishing any of them. Now, a couple of times I can think of that I saw a vehicle near the stream and skipped it to not have to compete with anyone else, but at least the two I can think of there's also a hiking trail along so it was possible they were just out for a hike and not fishing.

Now, I've no illusions that I have any "secret" fishing spots as I've talked fishing with a lot of guys in my old neck of the woods (ANF, which definitely gets less wild brookie fishing pressure than the State Forest land to the east in Potter, Cameron, Clinton, etc. due to the lack of "Class A" listings) and I've talked to someone or someones who have fished almost every decent stream I've fished, and lots more. The beauty is that there's so much good water in PA that unless you're near the bigger population centers, you could almost certainly fish a stream that hasn't been fished for weeks if not all year and have the place all to yourself. I miss that a lot, being in VA now and feeling like you never get away from a crowd.

 

[CinnamonJoe]

I obviously don't live in PA anymore either; nor does my 1/2 dozen fishing outings in PA/yr/boots on the ground make me anymore than an armchair expert, at best, on the realities of your streams.

That being said, I think it boils down to mostly to the effort required to fish a stream, and the reward. This, is of course obvious. I am not saying most people are lazy, or even that its 'more cool' to 'blue-line' (even though it is! LOL), but after changing my trout fly fishing interests/habits several years ago to generally seek opportunities in smaller, more 'natural' streams, the evidence and experience of 'pressure' on these waters, anecdotally for me, is far less than I see on a Fishing Creek, or Little J. And, its a strong function of how far you have to walk in to get on that water, followed next by a perception of numbers of 'available' fish. Many folks won't spend time on a stream they feel isn't well stocked , or 'populated' with an abundance of 'catchable' trout.

For example, on the stretch of the Laurel Highlands I like to fish, say within a 'triangle' formed by Clearfield, Tyrone, Somerset, even with issues like acid mine drainage, smaller watersheds, population centers, etc there are streams with little to no noteriety that anyone could access on public lands, and I'd bet have a good day fishing. But, other than worn paths near a trail head, or at those first few pools, the overgrown trails and my lack of encountering other fishermen tells me these 'quiet' streams may be just that: 'quiet'. Not 'secrets' mind you, just 'quiet', because for a portion of the fishing public, they just aren't worth the effort. Even after that surge of COVID/post COVID social media coverage of 'blue lining'.

Joe

 

[wildtrout2]

That being said, I think it boils down to mostly to the effort required to fish a stream, and the reward. This, is of course obvious. I am not saying most people are lazy, or even that its 'more cool' to 'blue-line' (even though it is! LOL), ...

Too funny. Generally speaking, the tougher a stream is to access, the better the fishing tends to be.

 

[Forestfishin]

Even after that surge of COVID/post COVID social media coverage of 'blue lining'.

Joe

I think a lot of people have read about “blue lining” and get a certain expectation or vision in their mind but abandon that type of fishing after a few outings of removing spider webs from their face, pulling ticks off, losing flies in trees and untangling their line from underbrush all while chasing trout that are usually much smaller than they imagined. Not to mention all the extra wear and tear on waders and boots from all that hiking.

 

[troutbert]

Many of these streams have side trails going off the main trail that lead to the better pools.

The people making those side trails to the better pools are fishermen, not hunters or hikers. How many trips per year does it take to create and maintain that kind of trail?

 

[ANF-Hiker]

Too funny. Generally speaking, the tougher a stream is to access, the better the fishing tends to be.

Indeed. Most of my favorite streams involve miles of walking and at least some beating of laurel to get to.

 

[ANF-Hiker]

I think a lot of people have read about “blue lining” and get a certain expectation or vision in their mind but abandon that type of fishing after a few outings of removing spider webs from their face, pulling ticks off, losing flies in trees and untangling their line from underbrush all while chasing trout that are usually much smaller than they imagined. Not to mention all the extra wear and tear on waders and boots from all that hiking.

Nothing better than a summertime hike to a cold water stream in shorts and some aggressive tread, quick drying shoes. 90 doesn't feel so bad when you can get calf deep in the water to cool off. Doesn't look as "fisherman-like" as the waders, but it's so much more comfortable. I pretty much only wear waders up to early May, depending on how cold it is out.

 

[ANF-Hiker]

Many of these streams have side trails going off the main trail that lead to the better pools.

The people making those side trails to the better pools are fishermen, not hunters or hikers. How many trips per year does it take to create and maintain that kind of trail?

Well, there are quite a few swimmers, dog walkers and other gawkers who use those pools, I've found (at least from evidence while hiking more popular trails in summer). It probably depends on the soil and cover type. Heavy grass like your yard won't be pounded down unless you're walking on the same spot half the day. Leaves and light vegetation like along a stream in the woods...probably 10 people a week during the spring/summer/fall would do the trick.

 

[burghwolfe1]

I just realized that I never actually said how things went. I never actually got to fish Rock run. We had trouble finding a suitable camp the first day and ended up walking a couple miles farther than expected and we were no longer near the stream. Second day I did fish the Black Moshannon a bit but with no luck. What I did learn is that I am old enough that after hiking about ten miles a day, I don't want to be bothered with an activity. I want to eat and relax in my hammock. So hauling a couple of extra pounds of fishing gear is just carrying more weight for 30 miles. I guess I either need to pick shorter hikes or save the fishing for fishing trips and not backpacking trips.