wgmiller
Well-known member
You can check out LR all year long... You just never what you might find and where you might find it! :lol: To us PAFF'ers, the season never ends!
Lititz Run - Lancaster County - 24.Nov.11
- Thread starter wgmiller
- Start date
The_Sasquatch
Well-known member
I'm gonna try the park later today (after some homework and delivering the Sunday paper inserts).
Man I gotta get some 'bow patterns.
Man I gotta get some 'bow patterns.
Lititz Run in 10 years will be like Donegal Creek is nowadays. A success story will once again slip away. In my opinion, the biggest issues with Lititz Run right now are poaching and pellets. I do not know who is using bait in the artificial lure only sections of the stream but I keep finding worm containers all over the place. I suspect that part of this is due to bait fisherman carrying fly rods.
It is very upsetting that the fishing continually worsens on Lititz Run despite continual improvement in water quality and insect life. When I was first learning to fly fish, I was able to spend an afternoon on the Lititz Run and land 10-18 trout over the course of a few hours. Now, after about 12 years of fly-fishing a good day on Lititz Run is between 3-5 trout and the conditions have to be right for this to happen. It really does amaze me how many out-of-state license plates show up at the C&R section. Lititz Run was worth traveling to 5 years ago. Now it is a catastrophe thanks to the publicity that brought increased poaching and pressure.
I think a big problem is that the put-and-take fishermen that frequent the upper end of Lititz Run never knew what existed a few miles away. Now I see "wannabe" fly-fishermen fairly regularly at the C&R section. I am all for introducing people to fly-fishing, but certain folks do not have a catch-and-release mentality. I never see spin fishermen in the C&R sections of Lititz Run but I often find bait containers which leads me to believe that live bait is being fished using a fly rod. FYI, I have seen several bait containers recently in the Conservancy which is a fly-fishing area.
Sorry for the rant. Very nice tiger trout!
Sidenote: I still cannot believe that I have never run into Sal on Lititz Run. We really need to get together and fish sometime soon.
It is very upsetting that the fishing continually worsens on Lititz Run despite continual improvement in water quality and insect life. When I was first learning to fly fish, I was able to spend an afternoon on the Lititz Run and land 10-18 trout over the course of a few hours. Now, after about 12 years of fly-fishing a good day on Lititz Run is between 3-5 trout and the conditions have to be right for this to happen. It really does amaze me how many out-of-state license plates show up at the C&R section. Lititz Run was worth traveling to 5 years ago. Now it is a catastrophe thanks to the publicity that brought increased poaching and pressure.
I think a big problem is that the put-and-take fishermen that frequent the upper end of Lititz Run never knew what existed a few miles away. Now I see "wannabe" fly-fishermen fairly regularly at the C&R section. I am all for introducing people to fly-fishing, but certain folks do not have a catch-and-release mentality. I never see spin fishermen in the C&R sections of Lititz Run but I often find bait containers which leads me to believe that live bait is being fished using a fly rod. FYI, I have seen several bait containers recently in the Conservancy which is a fly-fishing area.
Sorry for the rant. Very nice tiger trout!
Sidenote: I still cannot believe that I have never run into Sal on Lititz Run. We really need to get together and fish sometime soon.
wgmiller
Well-known member
Personally speaking, I wouldn't be opposed to restricting the C & R stretch to the button system that is used in the Conservancy. I know this alone wouldn't solve the problems that are occurring in that stretch, but it might be a good starting point. I know others have been "caught" in the Conservancy without a button and asked to leave. If there is signage clearly indicating that only button holders can fish and it is enforced, perhaps over time things might straighten out.
The one thing LR has going for it is municipal support. Warwick Township takes great pride in the restoration work that has been done on the stream. While elected officials change, I think there is a high degree of involvement with the municipality to make sure that it maintains a restored waterway.
The one thing LR has going for it is municipal support. Warwick Township takes great pride in the restoration work that has been done on the stream. While elected officials change, I think there is a high degree of involvement with the municipality to make sure that it maintains a restored waterway.
I walked the button section. It's nice water, BUT the nicest water is below. There's just too much **** and shot going into the best area of the creek. It's just too bad there can't be more of an AG buffer/ CREP / SET ASIDE program to benefit the farmers. Also, downstream of the creek needs warm water species blocks. I saw overa dozen MONSTER carp in the crick. I focused more on the carp than trout my trip.
Jonhy Cash Rock Island Line
Jonhy Cash Rock Island Line
salvelinusfontinalis
Active member
- Joined
- Sep 9, 2006
- Messages
- 7,267
I thought the last few posts warranted a reply......
Midge,
I'm not sure why you think the C&R project water is far better than the Conservancy. All in all they have two different faces. The Upper Project water is filthy with aquatic vegetation and has all the critters that go with that type of biological make-up (cress bugs and scuds). The most abundant life in this section are midges larva, sow bugs, shrimp and caddis larva. The Conservancy has trees and a ton of restoration work, there is a "dead area" from the pond downstream to the old dam site. The Banta Property, the Conservancy and downstream of Riparian Park have all the attributes of a classic spring creek. The C&R project water has more deeper pools than the Conservancy. It also has some far superior hatches than the Conservancy (light cahills, tricos and various caddis to name a few. What the lower project water lacks is trees. I talked to a DTU member just the other week and they finally got permission to start planting in the upper C&R area, they have already started on the lower end. While the lower end has scuds and cress bugs, they are far less abundant than in the Conservancy. (this is all supported by the lancaster county conservancy macro-invert data). The C&R area, while still a spring creek, is much more degraded than the Conservancy. However, the recent floods have washed all the silt out of the Conservancy and the C&R area, this is good news.
IMO, the Conservancy is a better section of stream, but it really depends on what you like.
As far as warm water species blocks from the Conestoga River, I completely disagree. Rettew had removed the dam at the end of Creek Road to enable fish passage. The reason for this is historically Lititz Run had a shad run in the stream long long ago. With the PFBC struggling to return shad to the Susquehanna River drainage and all the shad fingerlings planted in the Conestoga, you just never know. Personally I hope it is a success. Catching a shad run in Lititz would be something else. Another benefit from the removal of the dam is the macro life slowly working their way back into Lititz Run from the Conestoga Watershed. While the Conestoga is a very degraded waterway, its bug life is far more diverse than Lititz. Matt K. (Lancaster County Watershed Specialist) and I have discussed this matter a few times. It is his and my feelings that the return of several caddis species and the light cahills are likely from the migration of the Conestoga River. On a side note, since rettew has removed the dam I have caught more and more bass in Lititz Run. All small so I believe the bass have little effect on the stocked trout.
As far as "**** and shot" going into the creek.......keep reading.
CRS,
Poaching and the pellet hatches are a problem. Poaching being the worse of the two. I disagree that these are the two biggest problems. The Biggest issue is nitrate filtering into the headwaters or spring source at Lititz Springs park from the Manhiem farms along Doe Run Road. The nitrate levels have dropped dramatically since the wetland was constructed for Santo Domingo Creek, but are still to high in the headwaters to allow good spawning success for all the holdover trout in the stream. Wild Bows do turn up as you know, but I feel those numbers would be much higher if something is down about the farms above the spring source that feed the krast aquifer. Unfortunately, trying to get a family owned farms that have been handed down for hundreds of years to stop bad land practices is like trying to pull teeth with chopsticks. If they would stop the bad land management, it could still take hundreds of years possibly to decontaminate the nitrate that has made its way deep into the krast. The poaching and pellets sure do hurt the fish now, your right.But if a good wild trout population ever took hold in this classic spring creek, they would be as hard as any falling springs branch rainbow and could handle the pressure.
So its no so much the poo and pee going into the stream at the lower C&R area midnight. The problem is far worse, much farther upstream. Jeff (wgmiller) is correct that Warwick Township certainly has gotten much better with the concerns of the creek since the project started. Kudos to them. I dunno if a badge system is best or not, it could be but I think 1 section should be open to the public. I would like to see the Banta Property open. IMO its the best section really, the most classic in nature and is a total wetland (a mini letort if you will 🙂 ).
We have missed each other many times by 100's of yards, or a few hours or 1 day, yet I'm shocked I have never run into you also. I would love to fish with you also. I spend most my time in CV anymore. Ill send you a pm because you wont be able to get me here.
Midge,
I'm not sure why you think the C&R project water is far better than the Conservancy. All in all they have two different faces. The Upper Project water is filthy with aquatic vegetation and has all the critters that go with that type of biological make-up (cress bugs and scuds). The most abundant life in this section are midges larva, sow bugs, shrimp and caddis larva. The Conservancy has trees and a ton of restoration work, there is a "dead area" from the pond downstream to the old dam site. The Banta Property, the Conservancy and downstream of Riparian Park have all the attributes of a classic spring creek. The C&R project water has more deeper pools than the Conservancy. It also has some far superior hatches than the Conservancy (light cahills, tricos and various caddis to name a few. What the lower project water lacks is trees. I talked to a DTU member just the other week and they finally got permission to start planting in the upper C&R area, they have already started on the lower end. While the lower end has scuds and cress bugs, they are far less abundant than in the Conservancy. (this is all supported by the lancaster county conservancy macro-invert data). The C&R area, while still a spring creek, is much more degraded than the Conservancy. However, the recent floods have washed all the silt out of the Conservancy and the C&R area, this is good news.
IMO, the Conservancy is a better section of stream, but it really depends on what you like.
As far as warm water species blocks from the Conestoga River, I completely disagree. Rettew had removed the dam at the end of Creek Road to enable fish passage. The reason for this is historically Lititz Run had a shad run in the stream long long ago. With the PFBC struggling to return shad to the Susquehanna River drainage and all the shad fingerlings planted in the Conestoga, you just never know. Personally I hope it is a success. Catching a shad run in Lititz would be something else. Another benefit from the removal of the dam is the macro life slowly working their way back into Lititz Run from the Conestoga Watershed. While the Conestoga is a very degraded waterway, its bug life is far more diverse than Lititz. Matt K. (Lancaster County Watershed Specialist) and I have discussed this matter a few times. It is his and my feelings that the return of several caddis species and the light cahills are likely from the migration of the Conestoga River. On a side note, since rettew has removed the dam I have caught more and more bass in Lititz Run. All small so I believe the bass have little effect on the stocked trout.
As far as "**** and shot" going into the creek.......keep reading.
CRS,
Poaching and the pellet hatches are a problem. Poaching being the worse of the two. I disagree that these are the two biggest problems. The Biggest issue is nitrate filtering into the headwaters or spring source at Lititz Springs park from the Manhiem farms along Doe Run Road. The nitrate levels have dropped dramatically since the wetland was constructed for Santo Domingo Creek, but are still to high in the headwaters to allow good spawning success for all the holdover trout in the stream. Wild Bows do turn up as you know, but I feel those numbers would be much higher if something is down about the farms above the spring source that feed the krast aquifer. Unfortunately, trying to get a family owned farms that have been handed down for hundreds of years to stop bad land practices is like trying to pull teeth with chopsticks. If they would stop the bad land management, it could still take hundreds of years possibly to decontaminate the nitrate that has made its way deep into the krast. The poaching and pellets sure do hurt the fish now, your right.But if a good wild trout population ever took hold in this classic spring creek, they would be as hard as any falling springs branch rainbow and could handle the pressure.
So its no so much the poo and pee going into the stream at the lower C&R area midnight. The problem is far worse, much farther upstream. Jeff (wgmiller) is correct that Warwick Township certainly has gotten much better with the concerns of the creek since the project started. Kudos to them. I dunno if a badge system is best or not, it could be but I think 1 section should be open to the public. I would like to see the Banta Property open. IMO its the best section really, the most classic in nature and is a total wetland (a mini letort if you will 🙂 ).
We have missed each other many times by 100's of yards, or a few hours or 1 day, yet I'm shocked I have never run into you also. I would love to fish with you also. I spend most my time in CV anymore. Ill send you a pm because you wont be able to get me here.
The_Sasquatch
Well-known member
If it goes to a badge system, its a stream I won't be able to fish anymore.
The_Sasquatch
Well-known member
'cause you have to be a member of Donegal TU, which you know I'm not, to even buy a badge.
McSneek
Well-known member
- Joined
- Apr 12, 2011
- Messages
- 2,369
Are you sure you have to be a DTU member? Although DTU sells the badge, I thought the badge is also available through the conservancy which I believe is owned by F&M now? I don't thin DTU has that much control. I am a member but have not been active so I could be wrong.
The_Sasquatch
Well-known member
Yeah I'm pretty sure.
http://www.fandm.edu/millportconservancy/fishing-at-millport
http://www.fandm.edu/millportconservancy/fishing-at-millport
wgmiller
Well-known member
I should clarify my position on a "badge system". If it were to go that direction, it would be nice if it were opened up to non-DTU/Conservancy members. This would still generate revenue for stream restoration, maintenance, fish, etc. I highly doubt that it would ever happen and the more likely scenario would be the open water being closed to fishing. The Conservancy will probably remain a badge system as it has for quite some time.
And you're correct, you have to be a member of the Conservancy or DTU to purchase a badge.
And you're correct, you have to be a member of the Conservancy or DTU to purchase a badge.
The_Sasquatch
Well-known member
Its $35 plus a $20 to fish the conservancy if I join Millport.
I got a "first year" special rate offer for DTU in the mail. Much cheaper. I think I'll do it just for a year to check out the conservency. Need a good place locally to hit up in Jan. and Feb.
I got a "first year" special rate offer for DTU in the mail. Much cheaper. I think I'll do it just for a year to check out the conservency. Need a good place locally to hit up in Jan. and Feb.
Jeff, nice fish. Did it put up much of a fight? Looks pretty big, but you mentioned the fight was uneventful. Did you measure it?
I've only caught one tiger and it didn't struggle much. Reminded me of how a palomino doesn't fight much either. I guess those hatchery freaks just don't struggle as much as a typical stockie. Pretty fish though and as I was bringing it to hand I couldn't tell if it was a brookie or a brown. It wasn't as nice as the one you caught.
I'm wondering if they put some in Lititz run as a novelty or to keep the chub population down. I've heard of them being stocked for that reason.
I've only caught one tiger and it didn't struggle much. Reminded me of how a palomino doesn't fight much either. I guess those hatchery freaks just don't struggle as much as a typical stockie. Pretty fish though and as I was bringing it to hand I couldn't tell if it was a brookie or a brown. It wasn't as nice as the one you caught.
I'm wondering if they put some in Lititz run as a novelty or to keep the chub population down. I've heard of them being stocked for that reason.
TimRobinsin
Active member
- Joined
- Oct 11, 2009
- Messages
- 1,157
andy,
I joined TU this year and I have to say I am not disappointed. I understand that joining the conservancy seems like a lot of money but if you consider what you spend $35 on in a year its really not. I have "joined" both TU and the conservancy only because I believe in supporting the opportunities both work to promote.
I'm headed over to our chapter meeting on weds, let me know if you want a ride.
I joined TU this year and I have to say I am not disappointed. I understand that joining the conservancy seems like a lot of money but if you consider what you spend $35 on in a year its really not. I have "joined" both TU and the conservancy only because I believe in supporting the opportunities both work to promote.
I'm headed over to our chapter meeting on weds, let me know if you want a ride.
The_Sasquatch
Well-known member
Tim I'm not gonna joint till the new year. I'm not ruling it out, its not the money either.
TimRobinsin
Active member
- Joined
- Oct 11, 2009
- Messages
- 1,157
I here ya, I had been hesitant to join for other reasons too. What changed my mind was going to a work day down on climbers run and meeting the people who are really active in the group. I gotta say I was happily impressed. I was also concerned that there was not one person there my age or younger. TU needs the next generation, if local trout fishing is important to you then TU is something you should seriously consider. I had a chance to walk and talk along clbers run with our chapter president and he was very open about the challenges facing our chapter. It is really a good group of people.
