Leader to fly line: Don’t know if this has been posted before but I found it useful

[nimrod]

Loop to loop is bad -- Try attaching your leader to the fly line this way

The industry standard for attaching a leader to a fly line is the loop to loop connection. But it has a some inherent failings that cause major problems . . .

troutbitten.com

 

[CinnamonJoe]

Interesting. May give that a try on the next rig I work up.

FWIW, I ditched loops long ago and use nail knots or snell knots for leader to line. No complaints, but always keep an open mind to potentially easier ways!

Joe

 

[dudemanspecial]

The narrative that a loop to loop connection is bad is so strange to me. I've done it every way and notice zero advantage over not using a loop to loop. The troutbitten guy (who's sole goal it seems is to make flyfishing the most complicated activity in the world) saying tying a clinch knot to the loop also makes no sense to me. Why would that hang up any less than a regular loop to loop? Also it cuts the coating on the line inviting water to soak into it.

A greased up loop to loop connection floats like a cork and aids not only in keeping the line buoyant, but also serves as a great strike indicator. I color mine with a red sharpie.

 

[Nocktavius]

The narrative that a loop to loop connection is bad is so strange to me. I've done it every way and notice zero advantage over not using a loop to loop. The troutbitten guy (who's sole goal it seems is to make flyfishing the most complicated activity in the world) saying tying a clinch knot to the loop also makes no sense to me. Why would that hang up any less than a regular loop to loop? Also it cuts the coating on the line inviting water to soak into it.

A greased up loop to loop connection floats like a cork and aids not only in keeping the line buoyant, but also serves as a great strike indicator. I color mine with a red sharpie.

I spent years fiddling around with different knots, tools, and workarounds just to come full circle and realize that loop to loop is the best overall union of leader to fly line.

My assessment is that some people suck at tying small and fine enough perfection loops. When I make a leader I start with the loop and try to get it as tiny as possible. Then I tighten it up until it’s a tight as possible and use nippers to clip off the tag as close as possible. Doesn’t hang up too bad and most importantly I can change leaders without destroying my fly line like the troutbitten guy probably does (although I’m sure he gets them for free for promotion on his podcasts)

For me, between casts and at rest, the move is to bring the leader around the back of reel seat and then clip the hook to the first or second eye. That way the fly is pretty close at hand, the loop to loop is already outside the tip top of my 9’ rod and standard 12-15’ leader so this keeps things pretty streamlined.

 

[dudemanspecial]

And for the record, if one chooses to cut the loop off or modify it to do what they want for whatever reason, I'm down with that. It's the demonizing of the loop to loop that I don't understand.

 

[jrcll]

Been using a clinch knot the past couple years , quick and easy , no problems

 

[dryflyguy]

I've honestly had no problems with loop to loop connections.
Especially in more recent years, when line manufacturers have been making the welded loops smaller.
And I've been tying smaller perfection loops in the butt section of my leaders.
If something does happen to the welded loop - usually a crack after a fairly long period of use - I'll cut it off, and make a micro loop.

BTW - when reeling in a fish, I do everything I can to keep from pulling the loop-to-loop connection into the guides

 

[wildtrout2]

The troutbitten guy (who's sole goal it seems is to make flyfishing the most complicated activity in the world)

Too funny! 😆

 

[shortrod]

There are many ways to do it, all have fans. I use the needle knot mention in the article. The advantage is slickest connection for going through the guides. The disadvantage is you are not likely to execute one stream side. Not a problem for me.

 

[TimMurphy]

Dear board,

Another solution in search of a problem. I'll stick with loop to loop, even if it's a perfection loop on a butt section of 25 or 30# monofilament nail knotted to a fly line that predates the invention of looped fly lines. Heck, I even have 20+ year old woven mono loops attached by heat shrink tubing that haven't failed.

I have never once had a knot of any type get hung up in the guides of any fly rod I own and some of those rods are older than anyone posting on this forum. If it makes you feel better, you can always drop a dab of UV-Knot Sense on your knots and get a plastic blob that will always pass through your guides. They even sell nifty UV flashlights, so you don't have to wait until the sun comes up to harden the plastic! 😉

Regards,

Tim Murphy 🙂

 

[greywolf]

Dear board,

Another solution in search of a problem. I'll stick with loop to loop, even if it's a perfection loop on a butt section of 25 or 30# monofilament nail knotted to a fly line that predates the invention of looped fly lines. Heck, I even have 20+ year old woven mono loops attached by heat shrink tubing that haven't failed.

I have never once had a knot of any type get hung up in the guides of any fly rod I own and some of those rods are older than anyone posting on this forum. If it makes you feel better, you can always drop a dab of UV-Knot Sense on your knots and get a plastic blob that will always pass through your guides. They even sell nifty UV flashlights, so you don't have to wait until the sun comes up to harden the plastic! 😉

Regards,

Tim Murphy 🙂

I agree. Of all the things that can go wrong while fly fishing, this would be way down my worry list. If you do it right so that size is minimal, I have never seen one hang in a rod guide

 

[wildtrout2]

IMO Nothing beats a nail knot for going through the guides smoothly. It's PITA to tie, but boy it's silky smooth.

 

[JG63]

Interesting. May give that a try on the next rig I work up.

FWIW, I ditched loops long ago and use nail knots or snell knots for leader to line. No complaints, but always keep an open mind to potentially easier ways!

Joe

Yup - +1 on the old standard (I’ve tied thousands…) but this clinch method looks really functional and clean! I’ll give it a try soon

 

[dryflyguy]

I have a fishing buddy who uses knotless leaders
And attaches it to the fly line with a needle drawn up thru the core

That’s as smooth as it gets I guess
But when he does need to change his leader, he loses quite a bit of stream time doing it

 

[6xAdams(Jones)]

Having used loop-loop, Albright and nail knots, I won't die on a hill for any of them. I prefer a nail knot but can't tie one without a KnotKneedle. Changing leaders is a simple matter of blood knotting to the butt section.
My son had his loop break off and reconnected a spare leader with a pinch knot of all things. He fished with that rig for two days.

 

[gfenlikestolosepasswords]

The troutbitten guy (who's sole goal it seems is to make flyfishing the most complicated activity in the world)

Now, now.. his sole goal is to make money off of adsense. And he'll do that with as many 10m1s long videos for that extra mid-video ad break as he can.

You're on reddit, you've seen the jackholes who can't help but to make things more complicated at every step of the way. Different type of brain rot.

 

[nymphingmaniac]

not sure why this has to turn to hate on the guy. Agree or disagree with his suggestion- I don't like the idea- but I am sure his posts/videos have helped many people. If not, he would not be getting the clicks and revenue that seem to bother people.

 

[CinnamonJoe]

Changing leaders is a simple matter of blood knotting to the butt section.

This.

You do loose a little 'butt': however, that thicker line up there in the leader I find easier to tie on; and, you can compensate for that butt loss (to an extent) with a little longer secondary section, if that's bothersome. Usually though, its at most only a couple inches.

Joe

 

[ROVERT]

I used numerous methods before fly lines started coming with welded loops. The nail knot was my preferred. It didn't matter what I sealed it with though, it always compromised the buoyancy of the fly line more quickly than a loop to loop.

The only reason I would tie a nail knot now is if a loop broke. I've never had that happen but could see it happening if tying a clinch knot directly to the fly line loop. A loop to loop drastically increases the load distribution to the soft plastic of the fly line compared to a clinch knot. It's not as good as the nail knot in this regard but I can't think of a better way to cut through fly line than clinch knotting to it.

I listen to the troutbitten podcast. I fish differently for the most part but certainly glean some good information from it. I don't watch the videos but the advertising on the podcast isn't as bad as many out there.

 

[Bamboozle]

I have always used leaders of different types & tapers for different things so I change leaders often. As long as I can remember, the leaders I bought had loops on the end so doing a loop-to-loop connection seemed the simplest and most logical way to quickly swap out a leader.

100 years ago, I nail knotted a short section of heavy mono to the end of my fly line, coated it with Pliobond and tied a small perfection loop to the end which was my MO for leader attachment until I stared buying Rio lines with a welded loop...

I use more Sci Angler's lines than Rio lines these days, however I have never looked back on the loop-to-loop connection. Even the REAL silk lines I use on my bamboo rods have a woven loop at the end.

There is a trick to the smoothest connection...

You HAVE to make sure your connection looks like a 'handshake," like THIS:

NOT like a "cow hitch," like this:

It's also important to take a look at the connection once or twice while fishing because pulling the connection in and out of the guides can cause the loop in the leader to slip down from a hand shake into a cow hitch.

In regards to issues, I've had two loop failures in my life, but NONE resulted in the leader separating from the fly line and no failures with a welded loop.

One was a failure on a braided "leader loop" that you attach to end of a fly line WITHOUT a welded loop and the second was on a loop woven into the end of a real silk line.

On both of these failures the handshake loop-to-loop was so secure, the connection held despite there was only one loop so I just continued fishing.

SINCE these issues, I now work a little UV-Knot Sense into the area where the loop junction is formed and cure it with a UV light. I also do the same thing with Shorb Loops on furled leaders and the woven loops on the ends of braided butt leaders.

I have never had a problem since...

In regards to UV-Knot Sense, I've been carrying around a tube and one of their little UV lights in every fishing bag, box or kit I use because it is so useful. You may only need once in a blue moon, but when you have it with you, it can save the day!

I've used it on nicked fly lines. failed leader or line loops, knots that hang-up or connections that need some abrasion resistance; even waders in a pinch.

I'll also add that the NEW pocket sized "Nano" version of their UV light is 1000 times better than the old mini light that was prone to getting turned on by accident and used PIA small LR44 batteries.