How road salting impacts Pennsylvania waterways

[wildtrout2]

WASH YOUR CARS PEOPLE, that salt kills your undercarriage over time.

Just had my truck (2002/236,000 miles) washed this morning. I always include the underwash following salting events. That's how she stays so purdy.

 

[Silent Ocelot]

Just had my truck (2002/236,000 miles) washed this morning. I always include the underwash following salting events. That's how she stays so purdy.

That's impressive how clean you can keep that truck. I have a friend with a 2002 Silverado 1500 and he is currently welding in an entire new frame. Only reason he is doing it is that you can't get a truck with those dimensions nowadays and it's a five speed (he refuses to drive anything but manual) and most trucks nowadays are auto.

 

[wildtrout2]

That's impressive how clean you can keep that truck. I have a friend with a 2002 Silverado 1500 and he is currently welding in an entire new frame. Only reason he is doing it is that you can't get a truck with those dimensions nowadays and it's a five speed (he refuses to drive anything but manual) and most trucks nowadays are auto.

Thank you, it's my baby.

I've owned it since 2008, when it had 50,000 miles. I've been asked if it's garage kept and had numerous offers to buy it. And yes, a manual transmission is a thing of the past for most pick-ups.

 

[fishjake]

I have a bit of insight on the topic as I studied it my freshman and sophomore years in school.

now my school "wilkes university" did not have to equipment and I never had a super dedicated partner to follow the project with, but I can share what we did

we grew algae the base of the food chain in all streams, this was based on this project only being a small project for two classes.

but we found a good amount of reduction in algae growth with the increased salt concentration (shocking) and this would only magnify through the entire food chain.

thought I would chime in a hair here

 

[lycoflyfisher]

Just curious, how were you measuring salt concentrations? If you didn't have a continuous data logger or very high frequency sampling, you likely missed the fluctuations of salinity in response to precipitation post winter storms.

Also curious on the project design was a control site selected without known applications of roadsalt nearby?

 

[bdhoover77]

I’m curious if anyone has yet listened to the latest episode of Tom Rosenbauer’s podcast in which he speaks with Robert O’Harrow of the Washington Post about the dangers currently facing mayfly populatIons? He mentioned that things like road salt and runoff from carwashes can be a serious problem for insect life, including mayflies. This is in addition to the dangers posed by lawn pesticides (something my wife and I have decided not to do any longer…the insect population in my own backyard has improved significantly, even though the lawn looks like hell). Even removing leaves in the fall to a landfill reduces insect habitat.

Anecdotally, he mentioned that he catches smaller fish on the Gunpowder than he used to and that mayfly hatches have noticeably declined.

The podcast is worth your time.

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-orvis-fly-fishing-podcast/id278930814?i=1000594269524

 

[bugs4]

I'm sure there are a few folks on here that are familiar with Logan Branch near Bellefonte (a trib of Spring Creek). I grew up along that little gem and have fished it all my life. I can attest to the fact that, 30 years ago, there was a significant Sulfur hatch that has dwindled away to almost nothing. The salt that is put down on Route 144 almost has to be a contributing factor.

 

[salmo]

I know what’s in the brine that they put down on the roads, but when it gets blown up into the cabin of my car it really irritates my throat. Can’t imagine what it does to stream biota.

 

[TimMurphy]

I’m curious if anyone has yet listened to the latest episode of Tom Rosenbauer’s podcast in which he speaks with Robert O’Harrow of the Washington Post about the dangers currently facing mayfly populatIons? He mentioned that things like road salt and runoff from carwashes can be a serious problem for insect life, including mayflies. This is in addition to the dangers posed by lawn pesticides (something my wife and I have decided not to do any longer…the insect population in my own backyard has improved significantly, even though the lawn looks like hell). Even removing leaves in the fall to a landfill reduces insect habitat.

Anecdotally, he mentioned that he catches smaller fish on the Gunpowder than he used to and that mayfly hatches have noticeably declined.

The podcast is worth your time.

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-orvis-fly-fishing-podcast/id278930814?i=1000594269524

Dear bdhoover,

I like the way you and your wife think re: lawn treatments. I live in a pine forest. Nothing grows in pine needles except for weeds and mushrooms. My lawn looks worse than hell, but when all the weeds are mowed to an even height, I still have green ground cover so I'm good.

The amount of chemicals some people use to grow lush green lawns in the woods is staggering. I am gradually working towards only keeping my sand mound grass covered. Everything else will be native woodland ground cover or native perennial flowers. The problem is that I have so many invasive ornamental plants and shrubs growing in my yard that it's going to take a while to dig them all out or kill them off without the use of chemicals.

It's something to shoot for so I'm doing it.

Regards,

Tim Murphy

P.S. 21 years in this house and I've never raked even one leaf. They lay where they fell until the weeds start poking through them and they get mowed. Lawns are far worse for the environment than the dreaded golf courses. Lawns occupy 1000's of times more acreage, and most of them in suburbia are maintained with chemicals.

 

[bdhoover77]

Dear bdhoover,

I like the way you and your wife think re: lawn treatments. I live in a pine forest. Nothing grows in pine needles except for weeds and mushrooms. My lawn looks worse than hell, but when all the weeds are mowed to an even height, I still have green ground cover so I'm good.

The amount of chemicals some people use to grow lush green lawns in the woods is staggering. I am gradually working towards only keeping my sand mound grass covered. Everything else will be native woodland ground cover or native perennial flowers. The problem is that I have so many invasive ornamental plants and shrubs growing in my yard that it's going to take a while to dig them all out or kill them off without the use of chemicals.

It's something to shoot for so I'm doing it.

Regards,

Tim Murphy

P.S. 21 years in this house and I've never raked even one leaf. They lay where they fell until the weeds start poking through them and they get mowed. Lawns are far worse for the environment than the dreaded golf courses. Lawns occupy 1000's of times more acreage, and most of them in suburbia are maintained with chemicals.

We first decided not to treat the lawn because we didn’t want the kids or the dogs to be exposed to chemical lawn treatments. Then we decided we did not want to be responsible for harming insect and animal life, even in our small yard. The third benefit, as far as I’m concerned, is that we save money otherwise spent on trying to keep our lawn look fine until the heat and humidity of Maryland summer took its toll.

My neighbor told me last year that the lawn looked good. I told him that as long as you don’t look too closely, it’s fine. Weeds and natural grasses are still green. That’s good enough for me.

As for leaves, I just mulch them up and call it natural fertilizer for the lawn.

 

[riverwhy]

I use corn gluten for fertilizer and weed control. If I didn't live in-town Hershey, I probably wouldn't even do that! Cut the lawn high. I tried not mowing until June (No Mow May) but my wife got on my case. She still gives me grief about how high I cut the grass and sometimes says she wants a lawn service, but I know she realizes how bad it is and how firm I am on having a more natural lawn. Cutting high preserved many of the weeds/flowers in between like violets. I have had some issues last couple of years with that false strawberry crap.
Overall, it looks pretty darn good and have had a couple people comment on how nice my lawn is. It never goes dormant in drought except in those strips by the street I also rake move most of my leaves under my hemlocks. Amazing the number of birds digging around in them. Since I started doing this the number of birds in my yard had really increased as have the fireflies. There are a number of bumblebee nests under my groundcover that usually gets a nice layer of leaves mixed it. I have increased the number of native species since the previous owners seemed to have planted just about everything that has been banned or is about to be banned.
I am still amazed at the amount of chemicals people in Hershey use on their lawns. Some of my neighbors have experienced cancer in their dogs at early ages. One guy a few blocks away would spray for weeds with his dog literally standing next to him. He had two dogs and they both died young. Go figure.
Kudos to those of you who are good stewards!

 

[Fish Sticks]

Yea we bought a house with a small front lawn and medium sized back lawn and i am planting mountain laurels this spring in the back where the kids don’t play. I never rake leaves, I spread/apply nothing, and I converting half of it to native species/pollinator mix in the front. Also having 2000 live stakes and 50 tree tubes being planted along the stream in the front. Also clearing out alot of invasive shrubs and weeds in the back forest that popped up after the previous owners did what looks like a small timber sale and going to plant some white pines, mountain laurels, and attempt some hemlocks as well. I am hoping that in a few years it increases the stream health, amount of insects, and wild life I see.

 

[CRB]

Lawn chemicals and crop pesticides do a number on water life forms.

 

[Fly-Swatter]

Yep, they salt the crap out of the roads around my area. It literally looks like it snowed (which it didn't) after they're done spreading the salt. It all winds up downstream somewhere. Anything to appease the wealthy folks I guess.

Funding by auto repair shops and carwashes.

 

[Bamboozle]

I bought one of these and use it to wash the undercarriage of my SUV.

I hook it up to the hose, align it and the hose STRAIGHT between the two front wheels of my car in my driveway, turn it on and drive over it a few times before washing my car.

 

[rustbeltwilds]

on a lighter note i guess all the salt washing into the water will supercharge the rainbows ,, therefore making them true steelhead lo lol

 

[sgrim]

VFTU has recently worked with our friends at Stroud Water Research to compile data about the impact of salt on the Valley Creek Watershed, and publish a flyer for distribution to local municipalities. Here.