High winds: Fast 5/6 wt or moderate 7/8wt? Something else?

[Dport]

Having recently moved to Oklahoma, I find the wind is a constant enemy. You know how the song goes? Well, it's true! All of it!

I assume the obvious answer to wind would be a fast 8 weight but the problem is I love chasing panfish! Also, I only fish municipal ponds and I really don't want to be seen with a rod with a "fighting butt" if I can possibly help it. (I secretly like the look of them, but, really? Bluegills?)

Surface poppers and dries make up about 75% of what I use with bead head nymphs being the other 25%.

Currently, I use a moderate 5 weight which I would love to use constantly but I'm pretty sure there's a better tool for the job?,,,

 

[tomgamber]

Keep your casts low. pretty much sidearm. Some days I can roll cast farther in wind that normal casting. Ive found that'll keep MOST of the wind from torturing you. Sometimes you just have to time your casts between the gusts.

 

[jdaddy]

I personally like my fast 6wt for damn near everything these days. I'm honestly thinking about getting rid of all my rods except for the 8' 4wt, 9' 6wt, 9' 7wt and 10'6" 9wt. I think I have everything covered with those rods and the other ones get very little use.

 

[Fly-Swatter]

Before you buy a better tool for the job, make sure you've adjusted your cast, your flies, and your leader. I find casting low, as Tom said, can help if you have the casting room to do that.

You also should try casting into the wind. If you change the plane of your cast so you are casting at an upward angle on your back cast, the wind will help to completely straighten your line. This help you to get the best load as you go through your forward cast. The forward cast should be on a downward angle to help penetrate the wind.

At the risk of stating the obvious, avoid wind resistant fly patterns. Selecting streamlined surface bugs (sans rubber legs, marabou, etc.) will stack the deck in your favor when trying to beat the wind.

Finally, use a stiff leader. Maxima Chameleon is the standard for this. Build your own leaders using formulas specifically for strong turnover in your situation.

Play around with these low cost, low threshold techniques with your moderate 5 WT. You will be happy with the improvement. Your fast 8 WT will become a champ!

 

[krayfish2]

Have you tried a different line taper? Some of the real forward loaded ones (like outbound short) may allow you to cut through the wind but you have to remember you don't cast them like a regular fly line. It's one haul and shoot. The presentation will also be trash if you need something stealthy. A heavier rod should help in the wind but you will also have to learn sidearm cast as well as how to throw tighter loops. They cut the wind much more easily.

 

[dryflyguy]

I use nothing larger than a 9 ft 5 weight for trout fishing.
And manage to get by with it. Even on the Delaware River in April, which can throw some brutal winds at you.

Adding to the casting tips already given : I'll often wait for a lull between gusts, before trying to hit the target.
And usually, wind will calm down a good bit in the evening

 

[Dport]

Thank you all for the kind words of advice.

Is a shorter rod better for sidearm casting? Is a weight forward line the obvious choice? (I would guess double taper for roll casts, though?)
Also, I've been using a heavier 4x leader in a 7.5 ft length on the assumption it will turn bigger flies over. What seems to happen is the wind grabs the popper with an invisible hand and throws it yards off-course.

I'm going to try everything that has been suggested and then maybe I'll look for a faster 6-8wt in the Spring. With these winds, though! Feel like I need to get set up for tarpon... Or noodling for catfish, which is a popular pastime here😅

 

[PennKev]

Also, I've been using a heavier 4x leader in a 7.5 ft length on the assumption it will turn bigger flies over. What seems to happen is the wind grabs the popper with an invisible hand and throws it yards off-course.

4x is not a "heavier leader." If you want to turn over flies start with 2x or even 1x, or whatever the heaviest diameter is that the fish will tolerate. Also go as short as they will tolerate.

4x @ 7.5' is like what you would use for a #14 dry fly

5 & 6wt rods/lines are standard for western trout fishing and where there is plenty of high winds and big wind resistant flies are common. 7 & 8wts for panfish are overkill.

 

[afishinado]

4x is not a "heavier leader." If you want to turn over flies start with 2x or even 1x, or whatever the heaviest diameter is that the fish will tolerate. Also go as short as they will tolerate.

4x @ 7.5' is like what you would use for a #14 dry fly

5 & 6wt rods/lines are standard for western trout fishing and where there is plenty of high winds and big wind resistant flies are common. 7 & 8wts for panfish are overkill.

Agreed ^

Panfish are not leader shy. Use a heavier leader and also shorter leader like recommended above for windy days. And yes a 5wt or 6wt is most fun to fish for panfish. Save the 7 or 8wts for bass fishing.

 

[Silent Ocelot]

If you're looking for a new rod, boy do I a suggestion for you.

(If you can find it) SAGE Method 4wt. I have found this to be one of the best wind cutting rods in my quiver (had an 8wt version once and the just straight up ignored any wind). It's more of a 5wt/6wt but it will get the job done. I keep mine around for streamer purposes. I have found the rod really likes an aggressive shooting head or maybe that is how I like to cast the rod. This will aid in combatting wind. There's some good 5 and 6wts out there too, but yes, and 8wt is absolute overkill for bluegill unless the bluegill in Oklahoma are permit sized. I have caught bluegill on an 8wt and the rod barely flexed. It did work good for moving the fish through subsurface and surface vegetation. You want a good rod that puts a lot of leverage on the fish to get them through the vegetation if the ponds you fish have that kind of vegetation. I also wouldn't go below a 9ft rod as ponds typically won't have casting clearance issues and you will suffer a decrease in casting distance the shorter in length you go. I have found a 9ft rod to be perfect for pond work.

Other than that all of the other advice stated on this page has been wonderful. I second implementing a stout leader.

 

[krayfish2]

If you're looking for a new rod, boy do I a suggestion for you.

(If you can find it) SAGE Method 4wt. I have found this to be one of the best wind cutting rods in my quiver (had an 8wt version once and the just straight up ignored any wind). It's more of a 5wt/6wt but it will get the job done. I keep mine around for streamer purposes. I have found the rod really likes an aggressive shooting head or maybe that is how I like to cast the rod. This will aid in combatting wind. There's some good 5 and 6wts out there too, but yes, and 8wt is absolute overkill for bluegill unless the bluegill in Oklahoma are permit sized. I have caught bluegill on an 8wt and the rod barely flexed. It did work good for moving the fish through subsurface and surface vegetation. You want a good rod that puts a lot of leverage on the fish to get them through the vegetation if the ponds you fish have that kind of vegetation. I also wouldn't go below a 9ft rod as ponds typically won't have casting clearance issues and you will suffer a decrease in casting distance the shorter in length you go. I have found a 9ft rod to be perfect for pond work.

Other than that all of the other advice stated on this page has been wonderful. I second implementing a stout leader.

Not sure about that take on the method. I fish SA trout, SA expert distance and other true weight lines on my 5wt. I was worried when some were telling me that you need a 7wt line to load the rod. Absolutely not the case. If I were to use it on spring creek, it would suck throwing 20'-25' casts. In that case, I probably would throw a heavy headed line or one size up so I don't get tendonitis.

If you are looking for tight loops, 40'-80' casts and wind fighting power, the rod is hard to beat but it's not for everyone. Many people could not cast it effectively.

You can take a cheaper, fast action rod and mix line choice to match the desired performance. I have a 5wt echo base as a loaner. Put a 6wt mpx on it on a breezy day and it sent backing into the stripping guide. Putting a 5wt Rio gold on it also works but makes it feel stiffer.


For $200 or less... Echo carbon XL or Redington vice 6wt. Put a wf6f on it like a mpx taper, try a 5wt outbound short or try a dt7f. Each will make it cast dramatically different.

Best advice is to learn how to read wind conditions and use them to your advantage. Learn how to throw very tight loops when needed, learn to sidearm cast, learn how to cast and pull line in your left hand to force leader turnover, etc, etc

 

[falcon]

I feel the Echo Carbon XL is very good inexpensive rod.

I have used the 5wt Method and it is a really good rod for fishing mid to long range. Great line speed with very tight loops. It is a specialty dry fly rod.

I recently acquired a Sage Ignitor in 6wt. It seems a little more refined than the Method with a slightly more pliant tip. They both seem to have what I call a continuous variable taper. Your casting mechanics have to be good to take advantage of both rods performance. A beginner may struggle casting these rods
I really like them both. Man they can throw some line and tight loops. I pair both the Method and Ignitor with Rio Gold. I will try a true to wt long rear taper such as Expert Distance/SA Trout or Rio Tech Trout.

 

[krayfish2]

I feel the Echo Carbon XL is very good inexpensive rod.

I have used the 5wt Method and it is a really good rod for fishing mid to long range. Great line speed with very tight loops. It is a specialty dry fly rod.

I recently acquired a Sage Ignitor in 6wt. It seems a little more refined than the Method with a slightly more pliant tip. They both seem to have what I call a continuous variable taper. Your casting mechanics have to be good to take advantage of both rods performance. A beginner may struggle casting these rods
I really like them both. Man they can throw some line and tight loops. I pair both the Method and Ignitor with Rio Gold. I will try a true to wt long rear taper such as Expert Distance/SA Trout or Rio Tech Trout.

Think you'll like those lines. Also used Airflo pro distance (similar to SA ED) and Airflo river and stream which uses a taper similar to wulff TT lines

 

[falcon]

Has River and Stream been renamed. I think I saw that somewhere. Different name same taper.

 

[krayfish2]

They now call it tactical taper. Ridges or smooth

Freshwater - Fly Lines - Products

airflousa.com

 

[falcon]

Thanks I should give it a try

 

[Silent Ocelot]

Not sure about that take on the method. I fish SA trout, SA expert distance and other true weight lines on my 5wt. I was worried when some were telling me that you need a 7wt line to load the rod. Absolutely not the case. If I were to use it on spring creek, it would suck throwing 20'-25' casts. In that case, I probably would throw a heavy headed line or one size up so I don't get tendonitis.

If you are looking for tight loops, 40'-80' casts and wind fighting power, the rod is hard to beat but it's not for everyone. Many people could not cast it effectively.

You can take a cheaper, fast action rod and mix line choice to match the desired performance. I have a 5wt echo base as a loaner. Put a 6wt mpx on it on a breezy day and it sent backing into the stripping guide. Putting a 5wt Rio gold on it also works but makes it feel stiffer.


For $200 or less... Echo carbon XL or Redington vice 6wt. Put a wf6f on it like a mpx taper, try a 5wt outbound short or try a dt7f. Each will make it cast dramatically different.

Best advice is to learn how to read wind conditions and use them to your advantage. Learn how to throw very tight loops when needed, learn to sidearm cast, learn how to cast and pull line in your left hand to force leader turnover, etc, etc

What exactly have I said about the Method that is a bad take? Just curious. I felt what I said was pretty accurate and the I think recommending this rod to the OP for pond purposes was a good suggestion.

 

[krayfish2]

I took your post that the method 4wt is basically a 5 or 6 weight. I didn't find that to be the case. I know a few guys that have one and we all came to the same conclusion that the rod liked standard lines and overweight lines did not work as well... especially at distance.

It's not a pleasure to cast at 15-20 feet with a standard weight line but it is a specialty rod after all. Overloading it takes away the crisp action and fast recovery. It will work for some but it's not a necessity to over line it for sure.

 

[falcon]

Overlining certainly dulls the fast recovering tip. These rods require good casting mechanics especially no slack in both forward and back casts. If your cast is out of plane it introduces slack or a curve in the fly line and prevents the rod from loading efficiently.

 

[krayfish2]

Overlining certainly dulls the fast recovering tip. These rods require good casting mechanics especially no slack in both forward and back casts. If your cast is out of plane it introduces slack or a curve in the fly line and prevents the rod from loading efficiently.

Getting it off plane KILLS the cast. One thing I will say is that I prep first time users or weaker casters that "it's fast so you better keep up the speed and cast it like you mean it". End result, they have more acceleration, more abrupt stop and when they change back to their rod... magic. Loops are tighter and better leader turnover. It's not something you want to take to logan branch or blue line stream but it does what it was built for in spades.
In spite of perceived stiffness, tip is soft enough to stack mend / feed line.