Hammer Creek 4/10/22

[Mike]

Fish Sticks:
..“the thermal profile is not as bad as you think”…

1) I never said a thing about the stream’s thermal conditions.
2) The time period that I was referring to during which there has been improvement in Hammer Ck wild trout populations within the upper stocked trout section and in the stretch below it down to Speedwell is 43 yrs. Few, if any residents were present in those sections in the 1970’s.

 

[sarce]

Moon is right that this is the wrong venue to rehash this stuff. I deleted my post. My sentiment I expressed hasn't changed but it doesn't need to be in this thread.

 

[Fish Sticks]

Moon is right that this is the wrong venue to rehash this stuff. I deleted my post. My sentiment I expressed hasn't changed but it doesn't need to be in this thread.

Yea I will stop posting here, even when I post in conservation forum though still get attacked by moon lol scarce as my witness. However, I can respect your point this not the intended purpose of the thread and I let my passion get the best of me. Hard to invest hundreds of hours in a stream and not talk about these important issues but I will refrain going forward on this thread. Nice catches man!

 

[McSneek]

I fished Hammer Creek on Sunday as well. Caught numerous stocked rainbows on either a wine colored San Juan worm or the bird of prey caddis dropper. Only caught a few wild browns. My wild fish catch rate has been way down the last few times I’ve fished it which has me concerned. Hoping it was just winter time conditions. Water levels were very good. No bug activity. There should be some caddis soon with the warm weather finally on the horizon.

I cringe when I see posts by people like fish sticks about removing wild brown trout. I’m not at all in favor of that.

 

[Fish Sticks]

I fished Hammer Creek on Sunday as well. Caught numerous stocked rainbows on either a wine colored San Juan worm or the bird of prey caddis dropper. Only caught a few wild browns. My wild fish catch rate has been way down the last few times I’ve fished it which has me concerned. Hoping it was just winter time conditions. Water levels were very good. No bug activity. There should be some caddis soon with the warm weather finally on the horizon.

I cringe when I see posts by people like fish sticks about removing wild brown trout. I’m not at all in favor of that

You have to pick one species as part of a coherent management plan, I cringe at which one people pick.

 

[JeffP]

Personally I find this fascinating and the fact that it's kind of my home stream. I don't see where the animosity is coming from. I love reading from a variety of points of view and learned a lot. Yeah I didn't get all the science but it is spurring me to learn more. I guess it does belong someplace else. I'm torn as I was originally excited finding growing brown trout populations. Doc Fritchey has big plans for the Hammer. It's sad to see the decline of the brookies there. It's hard to believe they survived this long. I know guys that 25 years ago had 30 brookie days on a short stretch of stream. I once caught a 13 incher. I am greatly concerned about the lack of brookies that I have seen in both Kettle and Walnut. See you on a conservation thread.

 

[Fish Sticks]

Personally I find this fascinating and the fact that it's kind of my home stream. I don't see where the animosity is coming from. I love reading from a variety of points of view and learned a lot. Yeah I didn't get all the science but it is spurring me to learn more. I guess it does belong someplace else. I'm torn as I was originally excited finding growing brown trout populations. Doc Fritchey has big plans for the Hammer. It's sad to see the decline of the brookies there. It's hard to believe they survived this long. I know guys that 25 years ago had 30 brookie days on a short stretch of stream. I once caught a 13 incher. I am greatly concerned about the lack of brookies that I have seen in both Kettle and Walnut. See you on a conservation thread.

From a pure fishing perspective appropriate for this thread, I greatly enjoy catching brown trout too despite the conservation literature/research I’ve posted. They are a challenge, their sneaky, they provide a night time fishing experience that is absolutely thrilling. I was at spring creek chasing them on sat and grannoms were everywhere, it was a great time. I think their very cool salmonids and certainly don’t hate them as a species. I actually own and read books about brown trout conservation in their native range.

 

[The_Sasquatch]

The real "Danger" of stocking the section above Speedwell is probably more with harvesting than stocked RT eating native and wild fish. That "was" my home stream for several decades. Many times I'd run into folks with stringers of fish (that's fine), but inevitably there was always a couple "legal sized" brook trout on those stringers. The reality is, the general "Trout season" fishing public lacks the knowledge to know what is a native/wild trout and what was put in there by the fish commission.

I hope to fish it in late May when I'm back in PA for a week.

 

[Swattie87]

I get that by not attempting to remove them, you’re effectively making a fisheries management decision in favor of Brown Trout. But, once established they are difficult (impossible?) to successfully remove. And they are well established in the upper Hammer Creek watershed.

By selectively removing wild Brown Trout (and not wild Brook Trout) are you marginally helping the Brook Trout hold on longer? Maybe, I guess, but you’re definitely hurting the wild Trout fishery as a whole. The Brown Trout ship on this watershed has left port. I don’t know the stocking history of upper Hammer, but I’m sure at some point, even though they aren’t currently, Browns were stocked into it. That was the critical mistake.

I’d rather see Brook Trout conservation efforts aimed in areas where Browns are not established, and take the form of efforts to keep them from getting established.

 

[JeffP]

If I am not mistaken, I believe they plan on a nursery area for brook trout in the upper stretches along a tributary. I'm anxious to see how this will proceed.

 

[Fish Sticks]

I get that by not attempting to remove them, you’re effectively making a fisheries management decision in favor of Brown Trout. But, once established they are difficult (impossible?) to successfully remove. And they are well established in the upper Hammer Creek watershed.

By selectively removing wild Brown Trout (and not wild Brook Trout) are you marginally helping the Brook Trout hold on longer? Maybe, I guess, but you’re definitely hurting the wild Trout fishery as a whole. The Brown Trout ship on this watershed has left port. I don’t know the stocking history of upper Hammer, but I’m sure at some point, even though they aren’t currently, Browns were stocked into it. That was the critical mistake.

I’d rather see Brook Trout conservation efforts aimed in areas where Browns are not established, and take the form of efforts to keep them from getting established.

If I am not mistaken, I believe they plan on a nursery area for brook trout in the upper stretches along a tributary. I'm anxious to see how this will proceed.

continued in hammer creek thread conservation thread