Elk Creek, Erie County PA 12/5/2009

[DGC]

I was wondering what was keeping this thread alive.

I've never fished steelhead at Erie or anywhere else so this herding concept is new to me.

What I find interesting is that the steelhead are so willing to take after being "herded." Can you imagine herding a wild brown in Penns?

So with Steelhead not only can you move these fish, they apparently can become more aggressive and more likely to take. Probably common knowledge to experienced steelheaders but it's new to me.

If there are few or no other anglers around, is this herding or "exciting" by throwing rocks fairly common on the PA Erie tribs?

 

[Ramcatt]

the fish are not willing to take after being herded...

the lies that the are poked out of are usually the only safe spots in the streams... once force out they are in gin clear bath tubs...

"anglers" stand over top of these fish an repeatedly drift egg patterns...

it not like there is an aggressive take... they are force fed, flossed, or foul hooked

 

[salvelinusfontinalis]

I heard fish all the time with a 7'6" stick :-D

 

[Selfinflictedfunk]

salvelinusfontinalis wrote:
I heard fish all the time with a 7'6" stick :-D

Sal this is a serious conversation...there is no need to belittle us all with your #oops# size. :lol:

Seriously...if Ryan was doing this to catch fish and let them flop around on the ground until dead then I could see the uproar but he is catch and release I doubt it caused any harm or did this with a malicious intent.

 

[pcray1231]

Ramcatt,

Where do you get this information?

1. Aggressive, feeding takes are not unusual at all at Erie. It's kind of weird how those fish turn on and off so quickly, and the odd things that turn them on. But when they're turned on, they definitely feed.

2. Herding is a fairly well known technique, and it can often make the steelhead more aggressive. You can debate whether the aggressiveness is anger or the desire to feed. But there's little question that in some situations it can make a true take more likely, in some cases they actually chase it.

It's not the same situation as regular trout. These are large migratory fish in small streams, they often move a mile or more overnight, and they never really get comfortable in any holding water. They also see people wading through day after day and just get used to it, just like deer become less spooky in more urban environments.

When they get inactive, things do get tough. Some people search all day for "active" fish and either succeed or they don't. Some resort to foul-hooking, and thats looked down upon by everyone. "Herding" is a totally different approach to try and get them moving and active, and apparantly it occasionally works. It's not good form if other anglers are around, but I have no issue with it as long as other anglers aren't in play and the angling part of it is to get the fish to intentionally take an offering.

 

[groove790]

I vote we start a new thread for the Erie Stream Report. Btw, I was one of the guys pushing the fish into a fishable zone. For the record, I take offense to the statement that was made by the newcomer to the board. If you don't like what you see go somewhere else with your negativity. We caused no damage and broke no laws. We simply pushed the fish to a more accessible location. If I could do that with trout then I would gladly do it. I fish for the joy of it and it is your negativity that ruins it for some people. When I start breaking laws then you can say something to me, until then go cry somewhere else.

 

[Ramcatt]

pcray-
they are inbread hatchery lake run trout... but a less trouty than normal holdovers
"herding" is not as common as you make it out to be and it doesn't "turn on" fish... it spooks them
they winter in pools before going to gravel in spring

yes they eat
and will even take a swung fly
but when a pod is sitting in a bath tub and you put an egg pattern infront of of the same fish 25 times for an eat on 26... i really wouldn't call that an aggressive take


PA has created an amusement park of lake run bows
in no other place would someone think of "herding" fish


goove
i stand by what i said
the last thing people on upper elk should be doing is poking fish with sticks and chasing them upstream... save that for the circus
learn how to fish and adapt to situations... rather than changing situations to fit you

 

[JasonS]

afishinado wrote:
I’m not really appalled by it, but I wouldn’t do it. It’s a lot like some other practices such as the San Juan shuffle, stoning the pool, or chumming (where legal). It may help you catch fish, but it’s not my cup of tea.

Afish,

Whats the "san juan shuffle"?

 

[surveyor06]

JasonS,

Im pretty sure its shuffling your feet, in hopes that you stir the pot so to speak putting aqautic worms, nymphs and such in the drift. This usually induces feeding downstream of this. Sort of a technique to make inactvie fish active. Someone correct me if Im wrong.

 

[tomgamber]

Isn't there a forum where he could rag on about outright herding, lifting and snagging of steelhead. Its kind of a #oops# bag move to keep harping on this in the stream reports section.

 

[jayL]

surveyor06 wrote:
JasonS,

Im pretty sure its shuffling your feet, in hopes that you stir the pot so to speak putting aqautic worms, nymphs and such in the drift. This usually induces feeding downstream of this. Sort of a technique to make inactvie fish active. Someone correct me if Im wrong.

That's always been my understanding.

The san juan is an incredibly fertile desert tailwater. The bottom is filthy with aquatic worms, much like the bighorn.

When I was out west, I caught a few fish that I accidentally shuffled up. After standing in one spot for a bit, they would just pod up below you.

 

[groove790]

I started a new thread with the original report that started this mess. We should let this one die. I'm done with the pissing match. I don't care who's is bigger. Lets move on.

 

[JasonS]

surveyor06 wrote:
JasonS,

Im pretty sure its shuffling your feet, in hopes that you stir the pot so to speak putting aqautic worms, nymphs and such in the drift. This usually induces feeding downstream of this. Sort of a technique to make inactvie fish active. Someone correct me if Im wrong.

Thanks. I was thinking it was something along those lines. Last month I was fishing a class A (brownies). I was fishing a run and I noticed that water along the far bank (stream was probably 20-25ft across) was stained while the rest of the stream was crystal clear. I couldn't buy a bite but could see the trout going nuts in the hole. Couldn't figure out what was going on so I took a walk upstream. Came round a bend and found 3 ducks going to town on a redd. They were tearing it up and eating the eggs. I guess some of the eggs were being washed downstream and thats what was making the trout go nuts. Walked back down stream, threw on an egg and proceeded to pound them. I can see how the san juan shuffle could be effective, but I wouldn't do it. Now if a duck is tearing crap up, then game on. It's like an unexpected hatch. :lol:

 

[Maurice]

Gentlemen,

I have edited a few posts here of some words not appropriate for this forum or website. It is not useful or respectable to use such language to describe methods or fellow users. I am not interested in notifying each of the concerned parties so I did it here.

Please use restraint toward such behavior in the future. This is a public and popular forum viewed by many registered and unregistered users and it is the wish of the webmaster to have this website remain a place you could have youngsters or even your grandmother read.


Thanks,

Maurice

 

[YoughRiverGuide]

Except for the name-calling, I have to side with ramcatt on this one. If the fish is in a lie you don't think you can get a fly to, try it anyway. The worst thing that can happen is you lose a fly--big deal.

If you just can't reach them, leave them alone--they've earned it for the day.

I think the point the guy is trying to make (albeit in a rather abrasive way) is that we should all be out there for the experience. If you can't get them, learn from it and do it better next time.

 

[tomgamber]

YoughRiverGuide wrote:
Except for the name-calling, I have to side with ramcatt on this one.

Except for the name calling I don't think anyone would have made a big deal of it. That's the whole point.

 

[Ramcatt]

Maurice
understand you have a job to do... but at the same time do you want people reading questionable angling practices that lead to a large amount of foul hook ups?? I wouldn't want my kids or grandmother reading about people jabbing at fish with sticks and harassing paired up fish....



For the record, i never called anyone any names... merely commented on some peoples actions

ygh
thanks
re-try your intro post... you sound like good peoples
PM me for cliff notes

tom
you need an eyepatch and a shoulder to sit on

 

[tennjed]

I normally don't post, but had to on this one. Wow. Just wow. Really....herding fish? Now I know why I don't travel to that zoo aka "steelbow" fishing. I bet that tactic wouldn't fly out west (OR & WA) but here in PA. Doesn't surprise me at all. I'm with Ramcatt on this one.

Almost forgot, what's your favorite 5 wt.?

 

[Bruno]

So if I happen to kick a fish up on Penns or Spring Creek and it finds a new spot I should not cast to it ?

I have fished with the guys that are in question and I would have to say that they are not poor sportsmen in any sense of the word.

 

[ryguyfi]

Sorry I just got back to this thread. Busy smoking my steelhead today.... hahaha... and to those who are wondering, no it wasn't any of the fish I hooked in the area where the fish were pushed, and it brings my grand total of kept fish from 2009 to 1.

I appreciate all of the conversation here. I did not see any of the pre-edited language but appreciate the mods taking care of it. I am not a one to hold a grudge and will not condem anyone for taking offence to my fishing practices.

To answer the question of "do fish take after being pushed", the answer is "sometimes". I believe that steelhead are used to moving, due to their spawning instincts and moving a fish doesn't make a huge impact on them compared to a "Penns brown" or "small stream brookie". Different circumstances call for different tactics. Minus using streamers, I don't recall too many "aggressive strikes" in my steelhead adventures. Especially when the water is low and clear like it was on Saturday. Most of the takes are either seen or very subtle especially when the water temps go down. I have no problem, as you can tell, with moving fish to catch them. I sometimes like the challenge of catching a difficult fish, but other times I just want to catch fish. Especially being with some new guys up there. I have done this practice before this weekend, and will do it again. I did no harm to any of the fish, minus the few foul hooked fish, which was due to the low water conditions, not my pushing of the fish. No fish was lined, snagged on purpose, or "poked with a stick". No Pennsylvania fish and game regulations were violated and I actually admited this practice to my preacher... who himself would have done it. I hope the sarcasm isn't too thick to wade through.

I do see how someone could have gotten offended by what I said was done while fishing, but really was it that bad? I've seen snaggers, fish being abused and released, verbal abuse on the stream and just ran into some jerks. I see no harm in what was done but you are entitled to your opinion. I hope this conversation doesn't turn you off of this site, because it is a great place to share stories and "techniques". I feel I am a good contributor to the site and don't want to make a bad name for what this site is. So lets all shake hands and be friends. If you ever want to go fishing I'm always looking for people to share a stream with.


Ryan